• nimpnin@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      77
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      2 months ago

      Insane to start the plot at 45k. The rate of decline is rather minimal

      • Voltage@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        51
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        2 months ago

        In the last 3 months it went down by about 10,000 users. Comparing with the rate of increase in total Lemmy users, active user rate should have at least been stable. I guess we will have to wait for reddit to fuck up again for another influx. And Lemmy is only getting better with time so probably on every influx more users are going to stay.

        I try to get people from niche subs I follow to move to Lemmy but every time I do I get downvoted. Could be automated by reddit idk

          • danc4498@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            22
            ·
            2 months ago

            Right. Just make great lemmy content and screenshot it. Then when people ask for the source you provide the lemmy link

            • Blaze (he/him)@feddit.org
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              9
              ·
              2 months ago

              Or only mention it to people actively looking for an alternative. I see that from time to time, then I point them to /r/RedditAlternatives where most of the posts are about Lemmy

        • Blaze (he/him)@feddit.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          2 months ago

          I try to get people from niche subs I follow to move to Lemmy but every time I do I get downvoted. Could be automated by reddit idk

          Have you tried opening your comments from a private window? Sometimes they get shadow removed too

      • InquisitiveApathy@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        18
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        2 months ago

        The starting point is just so you can adequately see trends for both plots shown and is quite sane. I also don’t know if I could call an ~5% decline and clear trend minimal either.

        • nimpnin@sopuli.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          2 months ago

          If you start the plot at 0, you can distinguish between a strong trend, a weak trend and a lack of a trend. This one is terrible for gauging that.

          • InquisitiveApathy@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            4
            ·
            2 months ago

            All starting at 0 would do is ensure that you have no way to accurately gauge the data points values. It would also just compress the data to an incomprehensible smudge of a line.

              • InquisitiveApathy@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                5
                arrow-down
                4
                ·
                edit-2
                2 months ago

                Showing the data over an entirely different timescale than what’s currently under discussion means nothing in this context to illustrate your point.

                Starting from 0 on the y axis just means you need to change the scale, which like I said makes reading any data points incomprehensible, or end up with an unnecessary amount of whitespace.

                • nimpnin@sopuli.xyz
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  9
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  2 months ago

                  If you start at 0, you see exactly what you’re supposed to: there is a rather negligible trend in the given timeframe.

                  That’s the point. The number of users has very slightly declined in the past few months. Under the original plot, you have a lot of people (rightly) misinterpreting the data, and saying that a lot of users are leaving the site.

                  That’s why you start at 0. So that people interpret the data correctly.

    • nimpnin@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      62
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      2 months ago

      The same plot with a more reasonable y-axis:

      Active users (monthly is what you should be looking at) is very slowly declining, however we are still above the level that we were before the most recent influx.

    • ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      34
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      It used to be a much more significant decline, it seems to have leveled off mostly at 45k, so those who are left are pretty dedicated. I’m sure we’ll get another influx if Reddit messes up badly again.

    • Link@rentadrunk.org
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      29
      ·
      2 months ago

      What counts as an active user? If you are a lurker do you still count as an active user?

    • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      28
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      2 months ago

      I’ve BEEN saying this for a while now. How Lemmy users need to welcome new people with interests that are different than their own. People from different generations than their own.

      I’ve given ideas how to make starting an account easier. The concept of picking a home instance for someone who’s never heard terms like “instance”, “federated” or “decentralized” can be quite intimidating to start. And if you fuck up, and randomly choose the wrong instance? You have to start over. All your comment history gets left behind.

      So people are going to choose the most active instance, trusting the idea that OTHER people know what they’re doing.

      I gave the idea that Lemmy needs to adopt standards across all instances so you can push a button and move your account. All your data would come with you.

      Instead I was given a list of technical reasons why it would never work. The basis of these reasons came down to “it won’t work because it would be a lot of work”.

      I hear a lot of people on here complain about corporate greed, and enshitification, but you gotta admit that they do get shit done.

      In 2010 Steve Jobs was reviewing the new iphone prototype. Jobs said he wanted it slimmer, and wanted it airtight. The developers said it was pretty airtight, and there was no more room inside to make it slimmer.

      Essentially telling Jobs that his demands were not going to be met because it would be a lot of work. So Jobs stood up, grabbed the prototype, walked to a fish tank, and dropped it in. It sank, and bubbles came out. Thus destroying it.

      He said “See that? Bubbles. There’s air inside, which means there’s room inside. It also not airtight. Make it smaller, and make it airtight.” Then he left the room. When it released to the public, the final design was smaller, and airtight.

      Not saying it WON’T be hard work to make true account migration a reality, but it IS possible. The developers just figuratively need their prototype dunked in a metaphorical fish tank.

      Because until this process is easier, and users are greeted with a friendlier userbase, people are just going to sign up, realize they fucked up, realize the experience isn’t great, and leave. If they have access to reddit, they will leave.

      It seems everytime I search for a topic all the results are from a year ago. Which suggests to me that reddit fucked up, users exploded here, gave it a chance, disliked it, and left.

      Meanwhile, I point out just SOME of the glaring problems. But instead of embracing the problem and starting a think tank on how to fix it, my posts are instead turned into an echo chamber of how wrong I am. How the ideas will never work, and the problems presented persist to this day.

      All because I’m thinking from the perspective of the normie 95%, and not the linux minded 5%. Which really places an artificial self installed glass ceiling on top of you.

      • ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        9
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        2 months ago

        I think your idea is a good one, and I’d like to see that happen someday.

        I would point out though, that Apple was a behemoth company with large teams and massive budgets (essentially unlimited resources). Whereas Lemmy is just two guys barely scraping by a living wage from donations while slowly tackling an endless list of bug reports and feature requests.

        Tossing Lemmy in the equivalent of a fish tank to motivate the devs would, most likely, just cause extreme burnout and a throwing up of hands. They are resource and time limited to a pretty extreme degree considering how popular Lemmy has become, and that should be appreciated and taken into account.

        • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          2 months ago

          I I wasn’t talking in a place where the developers gather. I was talking here. With other users, whom I assumed would have the health of the fediverse in mind.

          The idea wasn’t me stating a final idea of “do this now!”. It was more of a starting point of a think tank. I was expecting to start the batton running, and pass it off to the next idea, or the continuation of the idea.

          Instead, nobody joined in. Nobody took the batton. They swatted the batton down, and collectively said “No batton! No change!”

          • Blaze (he/him)@feddit.org
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            ·
            2 months ago

            They swatted the batton down, and collectively said “No batton! No change!”

            That’s not what happened. People just agreed that other features have a higher priority.

            The list of upcoming features is available here: https://join-lemmy.org/news/2024-09-11_-_New_NLnet_funding_for_Lemmy

            Among them

            • Multicommunities
            • Moderation tools improvement
            • Private communities
            • Post tags
            • Ease discovery of federated communities
            • Post scheduling
            • Plugin system
            • Etc.

            Which one of those features would you deprioritize compared to the account migration?

          • Rolando@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            2 months ago

            I was expecting to start the batton running, and pass it off to the next idea, or the continuation of the idea.

            I think I see what you’re saying. Lemmy is indeed a place where it’s very easy to get involved, and people get involved in different ways. A lot of us just pick a community and start posting regularly. Some of us adopt dormant communities and bring them back to life. Others contribute by becoming mods or admins or setting up their own instances or debugging/coding. Even those people who were giving you reasons why the “transfer your account easily” project was difficult, they were helping you by telling you the challenges involved. Whenever a well-run project is started, you think about the hurdles, risks, and mitigations, then integrate those into your project plan.

            I encourage you to keep getting involved. The trick is to find the right level of involvement for you, then sticking with it and seeing it through.

      • Blaze (he/him)@feddit.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        9
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        2 months ago

        but you gotta admit that they do get shit done.

        I opened Reddit again today to have a look at my local city sub, where I’m an (inactive) mod, the interface to moderate now offers a terrible experience. Bloated, clunky, slow. So I’m not so sure they get things done.

        All your comment history gets left behind.

        What’s the big deal with you leaving an old account behind? Lemmy has no karma, if you keep the same username (and even more with the same picture), people are going to recognize you, you can even add links to both accounts in the bio to make sure. I’m on probably my 10th alt, people still recognize me from time to time, whatever the account.

        Instead I was given a list of technical reasons why it would never work. The basis of these reasons came down to “it won’t work because it would be a lot of work”.

        As @ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net pointed out, the 2 main developers have limited time and resources. What is the community supposed to do, threaten them to leave will the vast majority finds account migration a non-critical feature?

        The concept of picking a home instance for someone who’s never heard terms like “instance”, “federated” or “decentralized” can be quite intimidating to start.

        Here’s the post I made a few days ago on /r/RedditAlternatives: https://old.reddit.com/r/RedditAlternatives/comments/1fmuk7o/post_to_address_the_usual_criticism_about_lemmy/

        Federation is confusing, people want a single website they can go to

        Go to https://lemm.ee/

        Have a look around, see if the content and the formatting is appealing to you, register an account if you want to be able to curate your feed further

        Go to https://lemm.ee/c/newcommunities@lemmy.world to see communities (equivalent of subs) that might be interesting to you.

        Use Voyager as a mobile app: https://www.lemmyapps.com/Voyager. When they ask for your “instance”, use “lemm.ee

        If you want more choices for apps, have a look at https://www.lemmyapps.com/

        Email has been working on a federation model for decades. People have to remember if they use Gmail or Outlook, but that’s it. It’s similar here.

        There is a whole community here who has no idea what an instance or federation is, but they still use this community, and post 100 comments every 3 days. The platform is similar enough to Reddit for them to use. And I can tell you very confidently none of them (between 100 and 150 monthly active users) use Linux.

        It seems everytime I search for a topic all the results are from a year ago.

        Of course if you ask questions on a very niche topic on a dead community nobody will answer. That’s what !newcommunities@lemmy.world threads are for, to make active communities emerge.

        There is even https://quiblr.com/ if people want more tailored suggestions

        • Dame @lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          2 months ago

          The statement about comment history is inconsiderate. People absolutely care about their content. I don’t have to know nor care for their reasons why but it is important to users.

          • Blaze (he/him)@feddit.org
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            2 months ago

            Depends what they use it for

            • being able to access past discussions? Still possible from an alt
            • wanting to keep their persona and reputation? Use same name and add links both ways in the bios

            I can’t think about anything else, but if anyone knows, feel free to jump in

      • Serinus@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        2 months ago

        I agree with your argument, but not what you’ve applied it to.

        “Federation” isn’t the main feature of Lemmy, and we don’t need to focus on it. It’s enough that it exists. When selling a house, would the first thing you focus on be the insurance rates if something goes wrong?

      • AWildMimicAppears@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        2 months ago

        I agree with you that the onboarding process is complicated for a user that doesn’t want to invest time into learning how the fediverse works.

        I think that is a positive thing.

        The good thing about the Fediverse is that it isn’t profit driven, it isn’t necessary to grow without end, and because of this it also isn’t necessary to appeal to the mass of users who don’t want to learn how things work here. It’s a filter, weeding out the people who aren’t open to new structures - that often comes paired with the inability to have open minded discussions.

        I do agree with you regarding the missing transfer options, but since karma isn’t a thing here, a simple import/export function for subscribed communities and blocked items should suffice, and shouldn’t be too hard to implement.

          • PriorityMotif@lemmy.world
            cake
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            2 months ago

            You could decentralize user accounts so that they aren’t attached to any instance, or at least the account owner can move their account from one instance to another.

            • NuclearDolphin@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              5
              ·
              2 months ago

              This would be way easier to implement without blockchain. Data portability doesn’t require any of the consensus mechanisms or distributed computation, even if they would result in user data being portable.

              • PriorityMotif@lemmy.world
                cake
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                2 months ago

                If your instance disappears, then how can you make sure that you could use your same username on an instance that is created after that one disappears?

    • mesamune@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      11
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      Again the interesting thing is that a lot of other sites have a huge difference in numbers. But they are all saying the same thing, “Active” users are declining or getting close to equilibrium but number of users are increasing. Strange.

      I personally think that piefed/mastodon/other servers federating with lemmy might be messing up the numbers in some way. Both pumping up the numbers and making others “go down” in different sites and how they are pulling the data. Like if I respond via my mastodon account, is that a “new” account? Does that make it pop up as an active user? If I dont repost it via the mastodon account for a while, will I now be an inactive account, even though I still look at lemmy with it? Im not sure.

    • object [Object]@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      2 months ago

      The decline might be because instance owners have strengthened the account creation process. I remember in “the early days” how there were an insane amount of bots, but now it seems like most of them have been banned or mitigated.

  • masquenox@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    87
    ·
    2 months ago

    It’s amazing to me just how hassle-free it is to use Lemmy as opposed to reddit.

    Rddit just feels like it’s actively trying to get you to leave it.

    • Agent641@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      24
      ·
      2 months ago

      Reddit is like the late Roman Empire. It looks fine on the outside, but it’s corrupt all the way down, powered by unpaid labor, and the lead pipes are slowly killing everyone.

      • PugJesus@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        19
        ·
        edit-2
        2 months ago

        No, no, the pipes are fine (mostly). They have calcium buildup that prevents lead leeching.

        The REAL major source of lead poisoning in the Empire is much stupider - knowingly making wine syrup in lead pots because the lead makes it taste sweeter. Despite knowing that lead is toxic af.

        There’s probably an apt comparison in that to Reddit as well.

    • barsoap@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      ·
      2 months ago

      The latest annoyance is that they will AI-translate posts and stick those into search engines.

    • SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      2 months ago

      Interesting. May I ask how?

      Because with old.reddit and RES it really doesn’t feel much different (apart from the vibes in the communities)

    • jagged_circle@feddit.nl
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      2 months ago

      Bad moderation is still an issue here. Like allowing people posting pictures of text or low effort meme content on comms that aren’t for memes

  • lohky@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    72
    ·
    2 months ago

    I migrated over to Lemmy a few weeks ago when the piece of shit Reddit app refused to load any posts but continued to load ads. I have found this community to be far more interactive, kind, and enjoyable to discuss pretty much anything with. I haven’t found a reason to return to reddit at all.

  • Jack@slrpnk.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    53
    ·
    2 months ago

    I started using lemmy because of the reddit api fiasco and the platform really feels more alive now. Or maybe the bots got smarter.

      • werefreeatlast@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        2 months ago

        Sure! I can find agreement between AI language models and actual users of lemmy decentralized communication systems with your last two points…

        To find agreement with your last two points, AI language models would need to agree with both of your last two points.

        First, AI language models would have to agree with your first point.

        Next, AI language models would have to agree with your second and last point.

        In summary you would need AI language models to agree independently to each of your two different points so that it can agree to both.

  • superkret@feddit.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    41
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    2 months ago

    I don’t care about “number go up”.
    Lemmy now has enough users to provide plenty of content, and really interesting new communities I’ve never seen on that other website are starting to pop up.
    It also has its own memes and culture already.

    You don’t have 1000 comments under every meme post, but the comments that are there are usually worth reading.
    It’s not a reddit replacement - it’s much better.

    • Hubi@feddit.org
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      16
      ·
      2 months ago

      One of the nice things about Lemmy is that you actually get replies under your posts/comments and it’s not just repeating phrases to earn as much karma as possible. There’s always a sweet spot of engagement in online communities and I feel like we’re pretty close to where it begins. Other sites just make you feel like you’re shouting into the void.

      • meep_launcher@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        2 months ago

        Fair, but I do like seeing the federated model thrive and prove itself as a viable alternative to main stream social media. My utopian dream would be that profit driven internet would fall apart against what we have. I hate how much power is given to so few.

    • daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      There is still not enough people for niche topics.

      It is the eternal struggle as more users come niche communities will improve or even exist, but general communities will get worse.

        • BURN@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          2 months ago

          They kinda do though. I can’t post about my gaming niche in a gaming community because it’s barely tangential, and still haven’t found 99% of the communities I had on Reddit.

          Lemmy is good for /all, and that’s about it tbh

          • Blaze (he/him)@feddit.org
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            2 months ago

            Which kind of gaming niche is it ? Are the subreddit mods open to creating a post presenting Lemmy as an alternative?

            • BURN@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              2 months ago

              Simracing. We don’t relate to typical gaming at all. It’s all high end hardware, all very specialized and typically doesn’t interest normal gamers.

              Subreddit mods are very against Lemmy or anything that moves them off the platform. The absolute butthurt rage for weeks after the protests proved that one right.

              Mostly I just don’t see this platform as an alternative for medium sized communities. It works for large ones where there’s enough people that after a move if 25% transfer then you still have a lively community. Or for small communities where you can get 70%+ to move. But those mid size, 100k users on average communities trying to get them to move just ends up with a ghost town here.