• linearchaos@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out. I’ve had more than a handful of people bitching at me that it’s impossible to make a new, open web browser in this day.

    • schizo@forum.uncomfortable.business
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      4 months ago

      I think it’s less that it’s “impossible” but rather that it’s expensive.

      Honestly we’ve in general shoved too much shit into the browser that’s not strictly related to just browsing web sites.

      And you “have to” support all the layers and layers and layers of added stuff, or you can’t “compete”.

      But, at the same time, the goals of making a good-enough browser that mostly works and isn’t completely enshittified and captured by corpo big tech interests is a very worthy project and 100% support what they’re doing.

      • wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        or you can’t compete

        Nah nah fuck that noise. ‘Jack of all trades but ace of none’ or however the saying goes, is a shitty way to go about things. I don’t have the biggest dick but I know my way around around the block, and I know I’m good at it. More specialized > the catch-all bitches.

        Let the fucks with their special engine requirements eat shit. Standardize or write a fucking proper program (miss me with that “app” bullshit) or fuck right off. “everyone is special… exactly like you” now fuck off web dev. Your shit doesn’t get a permit.

        I may have some… disputes with the way the web is done nowadays.

  • laxe@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    I want to follow updates from this project. They have a Twitter account but not Mastodon sigh

  • unconfirmedsourcesDOTgov@lemmy.sdf.org
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    4 months ago

    The website makes it sound like all of the code being bespoke and “based on standards” is some kind of huge advantage but all I see is a Herculean undertaking with too few engineers and too many standards.

    W3C lists 1138 separate standards currently, so if each of their three engineers implements one discrete standard every day, with no breaks/weekends/holidays, then having an alpha available that adheres to all 2024 web standards should be possible by 2026?

    This is obviously also without testing but these guys are serious, senior engineers, so their code will be perfect on the first try, right?

    Love the passion though, can’t wait to see how this project plays out.

    • Diplomjodler@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      They’ve been at it for four years and they plan to have an alpha by 2026. Maybe wait how it actually turns out?

    • weststadtgesicht@discuss.tchncs.de
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      4 months ago

      W3C lists 1138 separate standards currently, so if each of their three engineers implements one discrete standard every day, with no breaks/weekends/holidays, then having an alpha available that adheres to all 2024 web standards should be possible by 2026?

      Yes, that is exactly the plan: “We are targeting Summer 2026 for a first Alpha version”

    • merthyr1831@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      Sure, but an individual website may use only a few of those standards. Ladybird devs will pick a website they like to use - Reddit, Twitter, Twinings tea, etc. and improve adherence to X or Y standards to make that one website look better. In turn, thousands of websites suddenly work perfectly, and many others work better than before.

      Ladybird is largely conformant to the majority of HTML standards now. It’s about the edge cases (and where standards aren’t followed by websites) and performance. This isn’t a new project.

        • merthyr1831@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          Andreas Kling, the founder and lead dev, has a massive love for Twinings tea and spent a few Dev logs working on improving their website with the end goal being ordering his tea from them :)

      • Matriks404@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Exactly. They have been working on Ladybird Browser for few years already, before it was announced as standalone product (It was a part of SerenityOS).

    • fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de
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      4 months ago

      a Herculean undertaking with too few engineers and too many standards

      Yeah, as a layperson this is my take. If mozilla is struggling to stay in the game then I just don’t really see how an unfinanced indie team has a shot.

  • miridius@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    builds a new browser from scratch without borrowing existing code

    still chooses to do it in C++

    Epic fail

    • ticho@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      The language choice was because Ladybird started as a component of SerenityOS, which is also written in C++. With this separation, they are free to gradually introduce other language(s) into the codebase, and maybe eventually replace C++ entirely, piece by piece.

      In Hackernews thread about this, the head maintainer mentioned that they have been evaluating several languages already, so we’ll see what the future brings.

      In the meantime, let’s try to be mature about it, what do you say?

      • SorteKanin@feddit.dk
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        4 months ago

        C++ is a very old, extremely complex language. There are arguably objectively better modern alternatives, such as Rust.

        • hexabs@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          I agree that Rust is the way to go, but calling something “arguably” & “objectively” in the same breath is a bit of a paradox innit?

        • phlegmy@sh.itjust.works
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          4 months ago

          Rust is great, but anybody developing something should have the ability to choose whatever programming language they prefer. If you want it made with rust, make it yourself.

          • SorteKanin@feddit.dk
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            4 months ago

            Of course, but it still makes sense to think carefully about the advantages of disadvantages of the tools you use when starting any project.

  • MuchPineapples@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    Funny how in the video the guy say that all other browsers are based on Google’s code. But Firefox is also independent right?

    • infeeeee@lemm.ee
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      4 months ago

      He says “powered by or funded by Google”. Firefox depends on Google financially, most of the income of Mozilla comes from Google paying for being the default search engine.

      They try to diversify their income (Firefox VPN, email alias service, etc.), but anything they try gets a huge backlash from the community, and still small compared to the the money from google.

        • Bali@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          I think google need firefox exist to avoid anti trust, and Mozilla need google to keep the the six figures payroll for the CEO. So yes.

  • solrize@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    It’s hard to understand the purpose of this. The difficulty of the project (i.e. complexity of the web) is the real problem that needs solving. We don’t need another fork of the browser-verse. We need a fork of the web itself.

      • Diabolo96@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
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        4 months ago

        We also have a fork of money, it’s called crypto and it’s used to sell and buy hookers and drugs. Every fork of something end up used to buy hookers and drugs. Truly marvelous!

  • CALIGVLA@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    4 months ago

    I hope this pans out, because I’ve long ago lost hope on Firefox being a worthy alternative to Chromium.

    • Noxy@yiffit.net
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      4 months ago

      Firefox has been perfectly capable for the entire time it has existed. What are you talking about?

  • asdfasdfasdf@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    C++

    If they’re starting a browser from scratch, why would they not have chosen Rust? Seems very short sighted to not have learned from Firefox.

    • ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net
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      4 months ago

      They used c++ initially since it was spawned from SerenityOS, which was designed to be a mashup of win2000 and unix.

      now that Ladybird is its own project, it’s not constrained to that goal, and they have said they will incorporate modern languages.

  • Avid Amoeba@lemmy.ca
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    4 months ago

    I do not understand the urge to start from scratch instead of forking an existing, mature codebase. This is typically a rookie instinct, but they aren’t rookie so there’s perhaps an alternative motive of some sort.

    • accideath@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      Because there are only like 3 browser engines: Chrome’s Blink, Firefox’s Gecko and Apple‘s WebKit. And while they are all open source, KHTML, the last independent browser engine got discontinued last year and hasn’t been actively developed since 2016.

      There’s need in the space for an unaffiliated engine. Google’s share is far too high for a healthy market (roughly 75%), WebKit never got big outside of Safari (although there are a few like Gnome Web, there’s no up to date WebKit based browser on Windows) and Gecko has its own problems (like lack of HEVC support).

      So, in my book, this is exciting news. Sure it‘ll take a while to mature and it is up against software giants but it‘s something because Mozilla doesn’t seem to have a working strategy to fight against Google‘s monopoly and Apple doesn’t have to.

      • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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        4 months ago

        Also Gecko’s development is led by people thinking that it being usable outside of Firefox\Thunderbird is a bad thing. There was a time when Gnome’s browser was based on Gecko, not WebKit. And in general it’s influenced by bad practices.

        SerenityOS is an amazing project, of course. To do so much work for something completely disconnected from the wider FOSS ecosystem, and with such results.

        So it’s cool that they’ve decided to split off the browser as its own project.

        • JackbyDev@programming.dev
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          4 months ago

          That’s always struck me as odd, but I’m also very much an outsider looking in. A “gecko electron” does sound intriguing though.

    • quissberry@lemmy.cafe
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      4 months ago

      Yeah, I saw this, and all my excitement for the project died. If it becomes successful, I might use it anyway though.

    • blind3rdeye@lemm.ee
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      4 months ago

      Hmm. I just read the github thread that this is about. The devs made a mistake on this; but it seems to me that there is a bit of an over-reaction here. The people in the thread seem to be discussing it calmly and politely; and the issue (i.e. use of pronouns in the build instructions) ends up being resolved. By contrast, the reaction outside of the actual thread… is extreme.

      Like I said, this seems like an overreaction to someone making a mistake of ignorance & indifference. It wasn’t an act of malice.

    • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
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      4 months ago

      Why don’t ya’ll contribute some meaningful code instead of finding ways to deny those who do

      • wholookshere@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        4 months ago

        Please describe to me how someone who offered up changes to change “he” to “they” for them, and then the contributor getting pissy about “politics” is denying work.

    • interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml
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      4 months ago

      All this because they won’t change a “he” into “they” ? Who gives a fuck about such rampant whiteknightism ? Why does a browser even need to know your gender ? In what context even is there a pronoun in the user interface ?

      • Excrubulent@slrpnk.net
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        4 months ago

        You could find out the context by reading the title of the thread, but then you’d have less to bitch about, so I can understand why you chose ignorance.

  • Logh@lemmy.ml
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    4 months ago

    Love the idea! Shopify as the highest tier sponsor? Not so much.

    • Spedwell@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      I’m curious what issue you see with that? It seems like the project is only accepting unrestricted donations, but is there something suspicious about shopify that makes it’s involvement concerning (I don’t know much about them)?

    • antler@feddit.rocks
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      4 months ago

      I mean if they’re gonna give money without demanding anything I’m sure no complaints from the devs.

      Shopify or an exec there might find some value in avoiding Google owning the web, could maybe bring goodwill for the company, or they could just be looking for a write off.

  • katy ✨@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    4 months ago

    “Ladybird uses a brand new engine based on web standards, without borrowing any code from other browsers.” has the same energy as

    • blind3rdeye@lemm.ee
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      4 months ago

      Not really. They aren’t inventing new standards. They are implementing an engine that confirms to existing standards.