Didn’t I read this headline a few years ago?

Yes but he serves a different community

It began with the forging of the Great Rings.

Three were given to the Elves; immortal, wisest and fairest of all beings.

Seven to the Dwarf Lords, great miners and craftsmen of the mountain halls.

And nine…Nine rings were gifted to the Race of Men, who above all else desire power.

For within these rings was bound the strength and will to govern each race.

But do you recall… The most famous one ring of all

That’s it exactly

Against my better judgement, why not.

If you’re acting in good faith why did you not answer when I asked if you understood how our elections work?

If you’re acting in good faith where did I state you were an elector?

If you’re acting in good faith why are you badgering with a question that you already know the answer to?

No. You are not “literally just asking you to explain your own understanding of presidential elections” and you know it. You refuse to participate in the discussion in favor of your own, possibly with the intent of seeking some kind of so-called gotcha moment. It’s not coming. They’re are functionally two parties within our presidential elections.

Since 1900 a third party candidate has received more than 5% of the popular vote (that’s you and me) roughly 6 times. That number drops to about 4 if you want more than 10%. In that same time a third party candidate has received any votes from electors (which are outdated but still very much the ones who are counted thus important to the process as it exists) in 6 elections. The last one was in 1972.

And just to further reinforce, that’s any votes from electors. The highest in that time was in 1912 when Theodore Roosevelt received 88. George Wallace later got 46 in 1968 and Strom Thurmond managed 39 in 1948. They continue downward from there.

So no, as you’ve been told by others, a third party candidate is generally not electable in the system we have. This is why the system is often called a two party system despite the existence of third parties. You’ll notice in common parlance they’re not counted, they’re called third parties. This is not a controversial opinion I hold, it’s how it is widely discussed by laymen and experts alike.

But you already knew all that and instead chose to badger to try and, I can only assume, have some kind of moment or way you were right. You were acting in bad faith and I have no more time or energy for your type of “discussion”. Goodbye.

Because they’re an instrumental part of how the election process works for quite a while now. If a candidate is receiving 0 electoral votes they are functionally as electable as you or I.

You’ve more than proven yourself to be in bad faith here though, so you’ll have to pester someone else with future efforts.

Who says I’m proud to support it

Let’s take care of some housekeeping first, since I’m not going to goaded into continuing a variety of conversation chains. It is not my democracy. If you’re eligible to vote in California it is our democracy. I didn’t make it or choose it any more than you did. We live in the same country and are bound by the same government with the same system.

Moving on to the comment this one replies to…

I just can’t help but see people say shit like you and be disgusted by it and every now and then I will call one of you out and you all react the same way.

Is it because you’re using the same arguments each time? There’s a common phrase about the definition of insanity you may want to look up if so.

You can’t actually tell me what your “good work fighting for Real Change I Can Affect ™”

Ah, a common tactic. You’re uncomfortable with the direction the conversation has been taking so you’re trying to shift focus to me. That’s one problem. See it wasn’t on me to tell you what that is, I asked you what ideas you had that would be feasible. You haven’t done that. This whole conversation isn’t about me or what I do. Realistically I doubt you would believe me if I told you as you seem to have presupposed a lot about me already.

or in other words useless electoral politics once every four years, has accomplished MATERIALLY.

I definitely can’t tell you a thing when you continue to refuse to define how you’re using a term, caps regardless. Materially has a few different definitions but at its core it’s generally “of value”. That’s the general idea I assumed in the first place and provided you things accordingly. You dismissed them and did not elaborate, only stressed words.

And I am sure you are a good voter that makes Informed Decisions. Maybe you even vote in primaries. Great! If so I applaud you

Thanks! I bet that was hard for you to say.

you are on the path to learning how futile bourgeois electoralism is

Ah, no, see I did that a long time ago. The thing is there’s not one path through any part of life. Just because you have dismissed a way of thinking you now attribute to me doesn’t mean that you’re ahead somehow.

It’s also amusing you keep reusing the same big words, but I digress.

(which based on your response I doubt) or (and I feel this seems more likely based on the evidence available) you just don’t have any fuckin skin in the game and feel comfortable smugly trying to shame people into supporting someone

The only thing I tried to shame you for was being a liar. You said Biden could earn your vote and later said you’d never vote for him. You said an untrue thing, that makes you a liar.

that actively hates them and seeks to destroy their communities and movements through actions no matter his words.

Which actions?

Biden wants us fucking dead, indigenous people, communists, LGBTQ people, immigrants, etc.

The man is a sex pest, a segregationist, and a genocidal imperialist.

You’re thinking of the other guy. It’s true Biden did some shitty things in his too long career in government but dollars to donuts you’re a different person today than you were 20 years ago. That doesn’t excuse shitty behavior, but it makes a lot more sense to judge someone based on their current action when they don’t agree with the ones of the past, wouldn’t you agree?

And none of that is to indicate there’s no problems with Biden as that’s simply untrue. I get the impression you think I’m some kind of big Biden booster. That’s silly.

If you can’t see how twisted it is to beg people to vote for that man

Where did I beg anyone to vote for him? You said you’d vote for him under certain circumstances, I exposed that those circumstances exist under my understanding of your continually undefined terminology.

instead of demanding better from the so-called “lesser evil”

What have I done in my life to demand better? Do you know? Of course not! You’ve exchanged a couple messages with me. You have no idea what efforts I’ve made to demand better, or continue to make. Just because I don’t think taking my ball and going home instead of participating in whatever minimal way I have is one doesn’t mean I’ve done nothing.

You also listed the fact he increased funding for fascist police who protect the fascists attacking drag shows etc.

Nope. I may have listed a bill that included such things, but you can see my reasons for listing them in my comment. You are aware that political action in our broken, corrupt system often includes shit with important, useful things, right?

So if you actually cared about vulnerable groups in the US you would be threatening to withhold your vote too

Because if I think a thing, or feel a thing important the only possible action is the one you do? If your vote doesn’t matter what is withholding it going to do?

but as I said you have no skin in the game

You did, again without knowledge of me or what so called skin I may have in the proverbial game.

your politics is purely vibes based and idealist.

More assumptions about me.

Demanding people that are actually laying their lives on the line to actually FIGHT for the things you profess to care about

What demands have I made? What fights have I fought?

vote for a man that would sooner have them dead than capitulate with our demands

Based on what?

you display a stunning amount of privilege and lack of ever having risked anything yourself for REAL change.

I don’t know that the amount of privilege I have is “stunning”. Extant definitely but hardly stunning.

And again you assume I’ve never risked anything for any real change. You assume this based on a few paragraphs of text.

Please tell my friends on the reservations, or my friends living in their cars, or the ones getting arrested for speaking out against US support for genocide, or being brutalized for protesting pipeline constructions, or protesting against bigger more robust training facilities

Fun fact, if I were your friend (and so far I think I’m pretty happy I’m not) I’d have been eligible to be on that list in the past. Hell, there was a time in my life that being in one of those categories would have been an improvement for me.

But that probably doesn’t fit well with the image of me you’ve created for yourself. Maybe you’ll insist I’m lying.

to put down said movements

Why would I do that? Wait, do you think people who vote all just collectively dust off their hands and go “I did my part, time to get back to the business factory and ignore any other problems in the world”?

tell all those people how they have to vote for Joe Biden, go tell it to their face and come back to me.

Why? There’s probably a few of them that already did and may again. If you act with them the way you do here I definitely wouldn’t fault them for not telling you. If they don’t that’s their business. I think it’s a bit short sighted, but I’m not campaigning for the guy. You said some stupid shit and I called you out on it. The rest of this has just been absurdity.

Wake up. People are dying RIGHT NOW WHILE BIDEN IS PRESIDENT.

Italics and bold are right there, your caps are tiresome.

Yes, people are dying right now. They will be dying next year and the year after. If we all installed your idea of the best possible option as a president they’d die under them too. Some of them would even be that person’s fault.

This is part of why you get the same things back all the time. You have rhetoric full of youthful idealism. Maybe you’re youthful, maybe you’re not. That doesn’t really matter.

The point is the world is a flawed, fucked up mess. It’s full of imperfect people, many of which more interested in their own advancement than the well being of others. This time next year either a Democrat or a Republican will be elected as the president for 2025-2029. If it’s a Democrat things will be somewhat less shitty for a lot the people you want to think I don’t care about. That’s demonstrable for quite a while. Back to Reagan at least.

What you don’t seem to get is that I can help the ones I have access to, but have very little I can do for all the rest. What I can do is a mostly symbolic but in an unlikely but not impossible scenario incredibly useful effort to put a president that might do any amount of good for them.

You’ve also got it twisted. By and large Democrats don’t care about a very large part of the population, sure, but they’re not actively seeking to kill them. That’s the Republicans. They die through inaction or blocked action.

You, however, are playing right into the hands of the Republicans. Attacking those who would be your allies. It’s just like the people who complain that a higher minimum wage would mean unskilled laborers would make too close to what they make, not understanding they aren’t fairly paid either.

Instead you try to drag me to a different post where you think you’ll have back up by putting words into my mouth and assigning me positions that I don’t hold. Even if you had followed your own instances rules and it hadn’t been taken down it wouldn’t have worked. I’m not interested in debating you or anyone “dunking” on anyone else. You made a statement and I called you on it. You were a liar and I pointed it out. If you don’t like it, don’t lie. Fuck, a “Maybe” at the front of a statement and this whole exchange may never have happened and I might not know you’re the kind of person to call someone a “fucking coward” because they went to sleep instead of hanging around to have a pointless conversation.

And it has been pointless. I’m not going to continue after this as I’ve found nothing of value in it, and I sincerely doubt you have either.

But you really should.

I assumed you understood how a presidential election worked in the US. Was I mistaken?

My life doesn’t revolve around you or this site. I’ll respond to things when I see them. I’m sorry if this is all you have going for you.

Anything of material consequence

Which he’s done. Ask one of the people who were pardoned from their federal possession charges, or received student loan relief. If those aren’t material consequence you’ll need to more clearly define what you mean by the term.

this is the difference between liberals and communists.

So you understand neither term

You think bourgeois politicians act in good faith or have your actual material interests at heart.

Where did I say that? I said he has backed up his intent for student loan relief with action even when meeting resistance.

You have a purely aesthetics understanding of politics.

Says the guy who has one comment and knows my outlook on all political matters

Even if he actually did any of that in the way you think he did and I somehow benefitted from those things, I still wouldn’t vote for him

So you’re a liar. I had need of a lawyer once and he told me it was fine if I didn’t remember something and said so. It wasn’t ok if I said something happened one way and it didn’t because then I was a liar and he couldn’t help anymore. You devalue your own words. You’d do well to think on that beyond any assumptions about my feelings on our legal system.

with all the material appeals in the world if it means being complicit with genocide in return for table scraps.

Then don’t claim that it can be done. I’m also interested in what your viable suggestions for better with the tools we have are. That appears to be the difference between you and I. I’m interested in what change can actually happen to improve people’s lives. It looks a whole lot like you want to move immediately into “no bad things”. Letting perfect be the enemy of good.

Fuck you and everyone like you

And that’s a big reason you’ll get exactly nowhere. Name me a person who has enacted major change for their people without working with someone who they disagreed with and I’ll reconsider.

Wake the fuck up.

Likewise

It is with the electoral college

How many presidential elections have you participated in where more than two parties received any electoral votes at all?

They are in a two party system

They can earn our vote by literally doing ANYTHING that actually materially benefits marginalized people or workers.

You mean like gun safety legislation (biggest in 30 years which unfortunately doesn’t say much), inflation reduction and infrastructure measures, repealing DOMA, or taking steps against systemic racism?

I agree, none of it is enough, and honestly he probably does too. You can guess that based on other things he’s tried to do and been stopped, like student loan relief. That’s a great example because while it was blocked by Republicans, he’s been taking other avenues to get some out there at least. That demonstrates it’s not just demonstrative efforts, which is a popular argument when that kinda thing happens.

But I get it. I’m no big fan of Biden myself. Then again, you didn’t say he’s not doing enough. You said “literally ANYTHING”. It’s right there in your comment and quoted at the top of this one.

Now since we’ve demonstrated he’s done more than literally anything, were you uninformed and will now change your stance, or were you a liar? If you were a liar did you already know that he’d done those things, or are you just not willing to stick to the criteria you yourself established?

No, but I’m gonna run his code anyway

It’s not necessarily about the average person. Depression is a bitch and different people have varying reasons for hanging on while under its weight. Just because there aren’t readily available studies about what reasons people didn’t commit suicide because of doesn’t mean these aren’t reasons. I can assure you they are. Someone’s favorite show has been their only light on more than one occasion I’ve known personally.

There’s a lot of deeper calculation to consider there. Is it a full production show, or someone’s YouTube project? Is the podcast a single person, or many? If it’s many are they in the same location? How much electricity is used to deliver your chosen medium to you?

Ultimately though none of that matters. If a podcast is what entertains you and makes your human condition livable that doesn’t mean it does the same for Jack.

If electricity is such an issue than you using whatever electronic device to relay data to a server where my electronic device retrieved it from another server with who knows how many hops in between each for both of us is not a good use of your time.

If instead, as I suspect, you see value in harm reduction you need to realize that not everyone can reduce harm in the same way.

Right now, somewhere, someone is getting by because they can’t wait for the next part of their favorite TV show or movie. Chances are you may even know one such person and not realize it. If that’s gone their tenuous grasp on life may slip away. Even if you are ok with that, and I hope you’re not, what positive impacts might that person have had that they will be unable to because they just can’t take it anymore.

Life is hard. Stop trying to make people feel guilty for not living it the same way as you.

Probably. We need something to get through the day to day of being a person even before we get into all the horrible things all around the world. If we avoided everything we do that has unacceptable ramifications we’d pretty much have to crawl into a cave and die.

Use the modern tools you have access to to improve lives, not try and make others feel guilty for not having done enough.

Yes, that’s nuts. I used to be very happy to have less than one and a half megs on something wider than a deck of cards. Now you’re talking about terabytes on something the size of a pinky fingernail. I could store a half dozen in a pocket in my wallet without noticing them. That’s a lot of storage.

For the record, only 6-10 games is also about 5-10 games more than I could store on one of those floppies, and if it was one it was an old game. It’d be akin to putting Halo: CE (not remastered or anything, original) on a micro SD.

So, yeah, storage is plentiful and readily available.