I was in a computer shop a couple of weeks ago and it seems the windows handheld makers are doing the same shit they have on their laptops - it was filled with pre-installed bloat, including some shit Norton antivirus 1 year subscription.
Something you never see reviews mention, which is crazy.
Isn’t it interesting how operating systems have a culture? From my early days of working with windows, it was completely normal for every other program to want to run itself at startup, no matter how useless it was to do so. And people just accepted it. They thought that computers literally get slower over time or something. Oftentimes I’d glance at someone’s system tray and see 15 icons or so.
On Mac and Linux though, this behavior is far less acceptable. Today on Mac it is by far worse than ever but still probably better than it was, say, on windows 98. On Linux I could literally install 50 apps in a row without any asking me (or doing it without asking) to run on startup.
It’s just up to what users will put up with. So windows consistently getting shittier shouldn’t really surprise us. People have put up with that from the beginning. Both in terms of the app ecosystem and the os itself.
Like we went through at least a decade on windows where most free apps people used would literally attempt to, or force malware on your machine, in the form of toolbars or other useless shit running in the background. People were so complacent they wouldn’t even uncheck those boxes when offered a choice in the installer. We really need better education in this world.
Yeah on my Linux machine I’ve had like 2 apps want to run on startup, and both of them had little checkboxes in their tray menus to disable that behaviour. If anything the bigger struggle has been that every time I change machines or distros I have to manually get yakuake to start on login again.
I have had the same issue a couple of times actually. Had to learn how to setup systemd services for one of them!
Antivirus doubly doesn’t make much sense on handheld. Today’s malware is more stealthy and focused on stealing your data, but what sensitive data are you storing on a gaming-specific handheld?
I guess there’s your Steam account, but the risk profile just isn’t the same, and it comes at the cost of performance which is already much more limited in this form factor.
I’d argue that power is more the issue. All that processor time the antivirus spends scanning and rescanning is a chunk of battery gone.
Anything with an IP address can be vulnerable to malware running miners, botnets, and all that good stuff for bad people to continually use your toys to do in the background. The convenient jumping off point into your home network and other inward-facing stuff there you might not want accessible from outside is also worth considering.
My Ally didn’t have any bloat. Curious which ones do.
I know logically that people can do whatever they want and it doesn’t affect me in any way so I shouldn’t care, but I do still get a visceral eye-twitching feeling whenever someone talks about installing Windows on a Steam Deck. It’s like someone buying a sports car and using it to tow a caravan or something.
It’s like buying an electric sports car and immediately converting it to diesel.
Dude, same. I cannot understand it (for games. I’m sure people have valid reasons if they’re using the Deck for some other purpose). It seems there is a cohort of otherwise relatively tech savvy people who are just terrified of all things “Linux.”
Maybe they heard horror stories from friends or family while growing up and aren’t aware of just how close to complete compatibility Proton is. In fact, in some cases, it can somehow run games better than if one were to dual boot and install in Windows.
Even Valve’s own Steam Deck verification should be taken with a grain of salt, it seems as though they’re being extra conservative with those. I’ve gotten several "unsupported " games working (very easily), for example , Dark Souls: Prepare to Die edition is listed on Steam as “unsupported,” but it works great (with DSFix even) on my Deck.
ProtonDB is a far better resource for anyone reading this who hadn’t heard of it.
But yeah, it’s almost like this subconscious aversion to Linux. And they want to be in their comfort zone I guess.
User Experience matters. And Valve knows that very well.
Someday, Windows might be as good at gaming as Linux.
All this because Windows 8 started to evolve into a walled garden with the Microsoft Store and that pissed off Valve.
Here’s to Windows ownership significantly dropping thanks to SteamOS.
I love how the tables have turned.
For those brave enough, this year I finally took the plunge and went with Linux on my desktop.
I went with Pop OS, and after a few days decided to try the cinnamon desktop env. since it’s a little more familiar. Some things took about a week to get figured out, but now I don’t ever want to go back.
I love cinnamon. I guess that makes me a classic guy. It’s nice without being too flashy.
Linux desktop main for about a year, and I mostly use it for gaming. Thank you Valve and Wine developers!
I switched to Mint from windows 10 about three months ago (when I upgraded my video card). Everything is so much smoother and just works. Except Remote Desktop… can’t figure that one out.
Did you try remmina?
I did the same transition a couple of months ago (the Windows to Pop! OS one, not the desktop environment one) and even though I’m a gamer (something which has stopped me from moving to Linux on the main usage of my home desktop since the late 90s - were I’ve usually had it on dual boot but not used it that much) am very happy with it.
I’ve actually been familiar with Linux since way back in the Slackware times, but only now have I started using as my main desktop.
I do think it’s getting to be the Year Of Linux On The Desktop for a lot more people than ever before thanks to the aligned forces of Windows “all your computerz belongz to us” 11, software as a system with general enshittification and just how much easier it is to game on Linux thanks mainly to Valve and the steady, unrelentless, stream of improvements being done by the Wine devs.
100% agree. I was getting tired of the start menu notification to sign in to windows, and how the updates would reenable telemetry.
I shouldn’t have to constantly run a debloat script. I should be able to disable “create a windows account” notifications.
The steam deck showed me that Linux can run games, the only thing left for me is a decently running adobe suite, but I can live with the occasional dual boot for that.
Not trying to get you back into Windows, and I hate to be the ass saying “skill issue”… but I legitimately have not had any issues with updates reverting my Windows settings in over half a decade. Besides the default PDF reader setting. I haven’t signed in with a Microsoft account and have never been prompted to make one after the initial install process.
Install the Pro version of Windows, use Group Policy to turn off the bloat the way Microsoft intends for it to be disabled by enterprise admins, and you’re golden. Maybe run a debloat tool or two right after your initial setup, but that’s it. No need for repeatedly running debloat scripts, and no settings reverting themselves.
It’s 100% easier to use an OS where none of that shit is needed, but I just get frustrated seeing people point at entirely avoidable things as why Windows sucks. There’s plenty of other reasons too!
Nah, you good.
The notification is the the start menu. There’s a little notification dot on the profile icon above the power and settings icon.
This issue: https://community.spiceworks.com/t/disable-sign-in-to-your-microsoft-account-prompt-in-start-menu/965584
Running win 10 enterprise. I can say “remind me later” but not “never remind me.” I did a registry/GPO fix which made it go away… Until it came back. The OS just feels pushy at times.
Gnome, even with Pop’s perinstalled extensions, is not the most familiar DE for those coming from Windowd. KDE, MATE, Cinnamon, XFCE are much closer and at least a few of those you can make to look like Windows (if you for whatever reason want to)
Familiar is bad imo, just switch to something different. It is different, embrace it. I use Fedora gnome btw
This is an odd take. There is no inherent advantage to using an unfamiliar ui on linux, there is nothing under the hood that “works better” for any specific desktop environment
I wouldn’t agree either, but I think there’s some kind of logic: At a certain point familiarity can be a detriment to learning if it leads to you adding invalid assumptions to your mental model because everything else is so familiar. If everything is unfamiliar however you’re less likely to start making assumptions.
As for how true of effective this is, I don’t know. Anecdotally however I had less problems learning entirely different keyboard layouts for example as opposed to layouts that are just slightly different.
YEAR OF THE LINUX
DESKTOPHANDHELDHopefully articles like this get more companies contributing to steamos/proton
They just can’t help themselves, lol.
All that bloat is bad enough on a laptop, but its the absolute last thing a handheld needs, both for performance/battery and ergonomics.
I think this is it. Extra margin they can slap on at the last second.
Prosumers aren’t going to care, because if the hardware is still OK, they can just re-install.
But consumers end up buying gear that is hobbled with shiteware.and to think there was plenty of no windows, no buy mentally when the Deck got announced. I cannot understand why would anyone go down the Windows route on a handheld, specially now that Linux has been so tried and tested
I mean, Windows would be fine if the OEM stripped it down instead of bloating it even more. They can totally do with with group policies.
I honestly don’t know what they were thinking here.
They were probably thinking that they’d use the cheapest Windows license (no gp manager) and make more money by putting bloatware on there via deals with other companies.
I know you know but why are they so short sighted? I just don’t think actual consumer experience is at the forefront of priorities. Deadlines and budgets are.
It totally kills interest in the device though. Its like they think every single buyer is an impulse buyer who just looks at the demo in Best Buy without even looking it up or trying it.
Eventually Microsoft is going to be forced to adapt and make an operating system that doesnt use 20% of your system resources, right?
surely they wont continue to make the same bloated, sluggish OS every year since windows 7 right?
I strongly believe they will do that. Then a week later, slowly introduce bloat again.
ah yes, the internet explorer/chrome/firefox but then firefox got better but then worse again/chrome/is internet explorer good now?/opera/operagx/Microsoft edge is actually fast now/back to opera effect
I can sympathize but I hate using the controller setup, I’m definitely a mouse and keyboard person. For better or worse I’m stuck with Windows unless Steam comes out with a desktop or something.
What do you mean? You can always use a distro like Steam OS (or any other Linux distro) on any x86 PC and still use a mouse and keyboard. Or use a Steam Deck and plug in a mouse and keyboard.
A steam deck with a mouse and keyboard is kind of horrible, I have tried that. And maybe things have changed, how well does Steam OS do as a primary OS? I might look into it again.
You can use any Linux distro and install steam on it? I really don’t understand the issue you’re having. It works perfectly on pretty much any modern mainstream distro.
Their questions are actually pretty straight forward, I really don’t understand the comprehension issue you’re having or why you feel the need to add the incredulous response.
Do you find the need to call people out like this in everyday conversation?
Because they’ve set up a false quandry. They’re setting it up as a three option problem with no other options.
a. Use a Windows desktop to game because they prefer mouse and keyboard unless Steam comes out with a desktop. b. Use a Steam Deck with mouse and keyboard but it has alleged poor support for that and isn’t viable (I’m saying alleged because I’ve never used a Steam Deck though my son has one). c. Use SteamOS and hope it has better keyboard and mouse support than the OS on the Steam Deck.
Those aren’t your only options. You could also.
d. Use pretty much any other Linux based distribution on a desktop and install the Steam app on it. Why would you need a Steam based OS? Clearly they don’t have a problem running Steam as an app in Windows, why not do the same on Linux?
Ok, from what I gather, they want to play games with keyboard and mouse, and also don’t want to use windows any more. Steam OS is designed to be controller friendly and while desktop is nice and usable, Steam OS is probably not the best desktop distro out there. The obvious solution is to install any distro (Ubuntu, Mate, PopOS, even some gaming optimised ones), but yet they seem hung up on installing steam OS for whatever reason.
I get that windows sucks, but having used both the screen on the ROG is just sooooo much better. Text looks much more crisp and I do have the option to run some other launchers and games I couldn’t on the deck. Also the download speeds are way faster for some reason.
Fun fact, there’s an advanced dev option on the steam deck to not power limit the WiFi card and it downloads 5-10x faster if you disable the power savings in my experience
