Companies “demand” shit and then just literally write the laws and hand them to legislators who pass them.
Well, Congress only hears one side, they don’t read Lemmy to get the other side.
They have no respect for their constituency, because they think their constituency doesn’t care enough to engage them about it, and are ‘dumb’ enough to vote them back in the office again.
There was a study recently that showed legislators’ votes are affected by like .3% by input from constituents. I’ll try to find it again, but I can’t say I’m surprised.
There was a study recently that showed legislators’ votes are affected by like .3% by input from constituents. I’ll try to find it again, but I can’t say I’m surprised.
I’ve seen it (there’s always one person who shares the link whenever I make this kind of argument), but that study doesn’t take into account what would happen if a large percentage of the electorate that actually participated in the system were to start communicating with their elected legislators.
Right now there is so little interaction done by the electorate with their representatives.
I guarantee you that if a large amount of the voting electorate all started contacting their senators and house reps often, on different various issues, things would matter/change.
So my point still stands.
If you just sit at home reading Lemmy, they’re not going to take you seriously, and they’re not going to look out for your best interests, but instead they’re going to look out for their own best interests, which is usually getting money from corporations that they use to win elections, because they know they can still get re-elected even when they disrespect their electorate.
Fundamentally, they do what they do because they can get away with it, they are not policed by their voters.
But during the trump years, those figures spiked big time. Especially with services like resistbot. The amount of form letters and shitty Republican legislators using my contact as some sort of consent on my part to join their fucking mailing lists?
Not to mention, these legislators are insulated from their constituents pretty effectively. If you do manage to get someone on the phone (I never did. Ever.), it’ll be an aide that might summarize the general tone of the calls and e-mails in a couple seconds worth of walk n’ talk. I mean…the system is rigged for people with money.
I get the feeling of wanting to change that. But I don’t think the system that has been further and further adulterated to those ends will ever just hand us the tools to upend that system. It was built this way.
I mean, how many times and how many ways do they have to display their wholehearted willingness to watch us all starve and slaughter countless of us in service of capitalism? They’ve made it abundantly clear.
But moreso, they are not policed. If they started losing elections because the electorate actually participated in the system, with more than just sometimes voting, that would change. It truly comes back to them being able to get away with doing their jobs poorly because they are not held responsible for their (bad) work.
But I don’t think the system that has been further and further adulterated to those ends will ever just hand us the tools to upend that system.
The whole point of my argument is that we have those tools today, we’re just too lazy/not-caring to use them.
Umm…have you ever tried contacting your representatives? You seem to think it’s so easy to get them on the phone. Why. How can you possibly think that? Those numbers don’t ring in their pockets. Their aides are the only people receiving and sorting through those calls and emails and letters.
There are a great many ways to petition the government, including with actual petitions, but, short of showing up in person, the one reputed to be the most effective is picking up the phone and calling your congressional representatives. In the weeks following the Inauguration of Donald J. Trump, so many people started doing so that, in short order, voice mail filled up and landlines began blurting out busy signals. Pretty soon, even e-mails were bouncing back, with the information that the target in-box was full and the suggestion that senders “contact the recipient directly.” That being impractical, motivated constituents turned to other means. The thwarted and outraged took to Facebook or Twitter or the streets. The thwarted and determined dug up direct contact information for specific congressional staffers. The thwarted and clever remembered that it was still possible, several technological generations later, to send faxes; one Republican senator received, from a single Web-based faxing service, seven thousand two hundred and seventy-six of them in twenty-four hours. The thwarted and creative phoned up a local pizza joint, ordered a pie, and had it delivered, with a side of political opinion, to the Senate.
Americans vote, if we vote at all, roughly once every two years. But even in a slow season, when no one is resorting to faxes or protests or pizza-grams, we participate in the political life of our nation vastly more often by reaching out to our members of Congress. When we do so, however, we almost never get to speak to them directly. Instead, we wind up dealing with one of the thousands of people, many of them too young to rent a car, who collectively constitute the customer-service workforce of democracy.
That doesn’t offer cold data, but it’s a pretty well known fact that this was an explosion of sudden political participation. And I don’t remember things going particularly well. Do you.
Umm…have you ever tried contacting your representatives?
I did it just a few days ago, actually.
You seem to think it’s so easy to get them on the phone.
You contact them, not call them. I never said call, I said contact.
Let them know you’re watching, let them know your opinions on issues, let them know you’re engaged, and you’re not just mindless cattle that they can manipulate in whatever way they want. If we all do it, if they feel the ‘Eye of Sauron’ on them, they act differently.
All you have to do is use one of their online email forms. They even respond back, letting you know they registered your email on what subject you’re talking about. They track this stuff internally.
From the article that you linked…
Unlike call volume, the data on mail sent to Congress is public, and it suggests that, at least among the politically active, the U.S. Postal Service remains popular; the Senate alone received more than 6.4 million letters last year. Contrary to popular opinion, those written communications are an effective way of communicating with Congress, >>>as are their electronic kin<<<. “Everything is read, every call and voice mail is listened to,” Isaiah Akin, the deputy legislative director for Oregon’s Senator Ron Wyden, told me. “We don’t discriminate when it comes to phone versus e-mail versus letter.
So, even in the article you linked, even the aides of Representatives state that contacting them is effective in making them aware that they’re being seen by their constituency.
There’s a volume/ratio problem of citizens to a single representative, so of course theyir aides are going to triage the calls coming in.
If you have a serious problem, some legal or administrative issue with the government, you actually are able to get elevated past the aides and talk to your actual representative. That happens all the time to citizens here.
But again, what I’m advocating is contacting them, you don’t call, you email (which is actually easier for us citizens to do anyways). They usually even have a link on their website where you can just web email them directly.
Their aides are the only people receiving and sorting through those calls and emails and letters.
And what, the aides never talk to their senators or their representatives? They never track why people are calling? B.S., they do both.
You’re not being intellectually honest. No one ever said you get personal one-on-one meetings whenever you want, and it’s weird how you’re purposely trying to motivate people not to engage in the political system they live in. Almost like you have an agenda/motives of your own.
Edit: Have you actually read through that whole article you linked? It really makes my point.
This is just two of the many examples that the article documents…
On January 2nd, House Republicans voted in secret to defang the Office of Congressional Ethics; less than twenty-four hours later, following what seemed at the time like a deluge of calls but later turned out to be just that loud patter you hear on your window before the storm really begins, they reversed their decision.
On January 24th, Representative Jason Chaffetz, Republican of Utah, introduced a proposal to sell off 3.3 million acres of federal land. Barely a week later, on February 1st, he withdrew it, after getting an earful. “Groups I support and care about fear it sends the wrong message,” he explained. “I hear you and H.R. 621 dies tomorrow.”
Dude. I just think you’re being naive as fuck. An aide. Talking to the press. Of course they’re going to say, “oh yes, we take constituents’ opinions to heart.” Any time an election comes up, the politicians will always tell you how much they care. If an aide were saying to the press, “I take calls all day. But it’s a bunch of angry people, and it’s my job to basically absorb them and listen for any threats. I rarely get half a second to tell representative X about what I hear. And when I do, it’s not like it matters,” well…that just wouldn’t happen. Because it’s the fuckin press and an aide.
But you said you’ve seen the study as well! The data has shown that their votes are not influenced by constituents contacting them. And then you said while that’s true, it’s just because not enough constituents contact them. I showed you how that spiked during the trump years. But their votes didn’t change.
How often do they say in campaign speeches, “well, you know right before coming out here I was reminded of Shana O’Malley, a single mother of four…” They couldn’t give two microscopic fucks about that when it’s time to vote. But when it’s time to make themselves look good? Sure. That’s where it’s useful.
Now, maybe on some smaller issues that aren’t as politically important—and surely this depends on the election cycle, whether they have someone challenging them hugely in the polls, they will take constituent contact into consideration…for their own ends.
But look at Biden right now. He can’t stop arming Israel to the teeth. People aren’t happy—especially those who would be voting for him. And he is still doing it. This is an incredibly touchy issue. And people are beyond upset over it. But people’s opinions don’t matter. Lockheed’s opinions? Sure.
Now, again, to clarify a little, when you get down to local politics, yes, I believe there can be some impact from contacting them. Also, when a freshman politician is trying to govern according to their values, they will take constituents opinions into consideration. There are instances in which I do believe it can have an impact.
But on the whole, you yourself have seen the study that shows that it doesn’t have a measurable effect on the way they govern. And you’re still arguing that it does, that it’s just not enough of us doing it. It’s nice you’re so idealistic about our political landscape. Maybe you’re young, I dunno. But it just feels like you’re being foolishly optimistic, with the data in your face refuting your point, and you’re still saying, “yeah, but…”
Isn’t it fucking crazy that “industry demands ____” is likely to come to fruition, but “group of individuals demands XYZ” isn’t likely to change shit?
I demand better living conditions. We all demand an economy that doesn’t favor the rich. Not shit will change.
Companies “demand” shit and then just literally write the laws and hand them to legislators who pass them.
Remember, they pass them without reading them.
No, but they do read their bank account statement before passing to see if the
bribecampaign donation was paid in time.If your demands are being met you have power, if not you don’t have power.
Well, Congress only hears one side, they don’t read Lemmy to get the other side.
They have no respect for their constituency, because they think their constituency doesn’t care enough to engage them about it, and are ‘dumb’ enough to vote them back in the office again.
They should hear from the other side as well.
There was a study recently that showed legislators’ votes are affected by like .3% by input from constituents. I’ll try to find it again, but I can’t say I’m surprised.
I’ve seen it (there’s always one person who shares the link whenever I make this kind of argument), but that study doesn’t take into account what would happen if a large percentage of the electorate that actually participated in the system were to start communicating with their elected legislators.
Right now there is so little interaction done by the electorate with their representatives.
I guarantee you that if a large amount of the voting electorate all started contacting their senators and house reps often, on different various issues, things would matter/change.
So my point still stands.
If you just sit at home reading Lemmy, they’re not going to take you seriously, and they’re not going to look out for your best interests, but instead they’re going to look out for their own best interests, which is usually getting money from corporations that they use to win elections, because they know they can still get re-elected even when they disrespect their electorate.
Fundamentally, they do what they do because they can get away with it, they are not policed by their voters.
TL;DR: If you don’t engage, nothing will change.
But during the trump years, those figures spiked big time. Especially with services like resistbot. The amount of form letters and shitty Republican legislators using my contact as some sort of consent on my part to join their fucking mailing lists?
Not to mention, these legislators are insulated from their constituents pretty effectively. If you do manage to get someone on the phone (I never did. Ever.), it’ll be an aide that might summarize the general tone of the calls and e-mails in a couple seconds worth of walk n’ talk. I mean…the system is rigged for people with money.
I get the feeling of wanting to change that. But I don’t think the system that has been further and further adulterated to those ends will ever just hand us the tools to upend that system. It was built this way.
I mean, how many times and how many ways do they have to display their wholehearted willingness to watch us all starve and slaughter countless of us in service of capitalism? They’ve made it abundantly clear.
[Citation required.] [And define ‘big time’.]
No, they are not. You can contact them directly.
But moreso, they are not policed. If they started losing elections because the electorate actually participated in the system, with more than just sometimes voting, that would change. It truly comes back to them being able to get away with doing their jobs poorly because they are not held responsible for their (bad) work.
The whole point of my argument is that we have those tools today, we’re just too lazy/not-caring to use them.
Umm…have you ever tried contacting your representatives? You seem to think it’s so easy to get them on the phone. Why. How can you possibly think that? Those numbers don’t ring in their pockets. Their aides are the only people receiving and sorting through those calls and emails and letters.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/06/what-calling-congress-achieves
That doesn’t offer cold data, but it’s a pretty well known fact that this was an explosion of sudden political participation. And I don’t remember things going particularly well. Do you.
I did it just a few days ago, actually.
You contact them, not call them. I never said call, I said contact.
Let them know you’re watching, let them know your opinions on issues, let them know you’re engaged, and you’re not just mindless cattle that they can manipulate in whatever way they want. If we all do it, if they feel the ‘Eye of Sauron’ on them, they act differently.
All you have to do is use one of their online email forms. They even respond back, letting you know they registered your email on what subject you’re talking about. They track this stuff internally.
From the article that you linked…
So, even in the article you linked, even the aides of Representatives state that contacting them is effective in making them aware that they’re being seen by their constituency.
There’s a volume/ratio problem of citizens to a single representative, so of course theyir aides are going to triage the calls coming in.
If you have a serious problem, some legal or administrative issue with the government, you actually are able to get elevated past the aides and talk to your actual representative. That happens all the time to citizens here.
But again, what I’m advocating is contacting them, you don’t call, you email (which is actually easier for us citizens to do anyways). They usually even have a link on their website where you can just web email them directly.
And what, the aides never talk to their senators or their representatives? They never track why people are calling? B.S., they do both.
You’re not being intellectually honest. No one ever said you get personal one-on-one meetings whenever you want, and it’s weird how you’re purposely trying to motivate people not to engage in the political system they live in. Almost like you have an agenda/motives of your own.
Edit: Have you actually read through that whole article you linked? It really makes my point.
This is just two of the many examples that the article documents…
Dude. I just think you’re being naive as fuck. An aide. Talking to the press. Of course they’re going to say, “oh yes, we take constituents’ opinions to heart.” Any time an election comes up, the politicians will always tell you how much they care. If an aide were saying to the press, “I take calls all day. But it’s a bunch of angry people, and it’s my job to basically absorb them and listen for any threats. I rarely get half a second to tell representative X about what I hear. And when I do, it’s not like it matters,” well…that just wouldn’t happen. Because it’s the fuckin press and an aide.
But you said you’ve seen the study as well! The data has shown that their votes are not influenced by constituents contacting them. And then you said while that’s true, it’s just because not enough constituents contact them. I showed you how that spiked during the trump years. But their votes didn’t change.
How often do they say in campaign speeches, “well, you know right before coming out here I was reminded of Shana O’Malley, a single mother of four…” They couldn’t give two microscopic fucks about that when it’s time to vote. But when it’s time to make themselves look good? Sure. That’s where it’s useful.
Now, maybe on some smaller issues that aren’t as politically important—and surely this depends on the election cycle, whether they have someone challenging them hugely in the polls, they will take constituent contact into consideration…for their own ends.
But look at Biden right now. He can’t stop arming Israel to the teeth. People aren’t happy—especially those who would be voting for him. And he is still doing it. This is an incredibly touchy issue. And people are beyond upset over it. But people’s opinions don’t matter. Lockheed’s opinions? Sure.
Now, again, to clarify a little, when you get down to local politics, yes, I believe there can be some impact from contacting them. Also, when a freshman politician is trying to govern according to their values, they will take constituents opinions into consideration. There are instances in which I do believe it can have an impact.
But on the whole, you yourself have seen the study that shows that it doesn’t have a measurable effect on the way they govern. And you’re still arguing that it does, that it’s just not enough of us doing it. It’s nice you’re so idealistic about our political landscape. Maybe you’re young, I dunno. But it just feels like you’re being foolishly optimistic, with the data in your face refuting your point, and you’re still saying, “yeah, but…”