Wait, so are people going to claim that the start-up speed is the problem with GIMP on Windows and not the god awful UI? This is the problem with the Linux crowd. You guys write software to write software and not because you are a user of that software. A clunky UI - which is far, far too common on open source applications - will cost someone a heck of a lot more than a few seconds in getting work done.
This is the problem with the Linux crowd. You guys write software to write software and not because you are a user of that software.
It’s a problem you have since your OS pretends that Software (or a Computer in general) isn’t complex.
Linux crowds use *NIX principles that are >50 years old and didn’t change a lot, because they work. Not because some software devs circlejerk or want to annoy you.
I’m talking from a users perspective. I don’t give a flying fuck about whatever development technologies you are taking about because ultimately I don’t care. The vast majority of people don’t know - or care - how their car works. They just know it has to start. That’s how you folks lose the battle. You wrote code because you want to practice your skills or learn some new techniques or just because your bored. That’s great. That’s fine. But you’re not asking people that USE that software HOW it’s used. Next to zero effort is put into workflow. Your code might be fast. It might be bug free. Congrats, but if it takes 10 clicks to accomplish something that other software can do in 2, then that’s a problem. If the workflow is totally disjointed and not how a graphic designer actually works, then what good is that 2.735% more efficient code going to do for them?
The fact that my post was about UI and workflow and youre talking about Unix principlea speaks volumes to why open source software tends to be so bad from a users perspective.
no, you’re talking from a patreon perspective. You have no clue of the subject and you simply demand people serving stuff the way you think is best. Also you don’t care why things are the way they are.
Basically a Karen User.
The vast majority of people don’t know - or care - how their car works. They just know it has to start.
Exactly. The vast majority buys a $50.000 car and only use 2% of it’s features. And if the manufacturer starts to charge for a feature you like or decides to spy on you, there’s nothing you can do about it.
I KNOW I’m not talking like a developer. I’m not one. I’m a fucken user. That’s the point. The point that so many piece of open source software completely miss.
And you just did it again.
I don’t care if there is a little gerbil in a wheel spinning inside my machine. I don’t care if it is a nuclear reactor making it go. To the user, that’s is immaterial and you are missing that point.
As a user I don’t care HOW a piece of software is made. I care that it works and I can get my work done. There is a workflow to most jobs. You do this before you do that. You click on this tool 10x as often as this other one. Few open source programs bother to understand that all important work flow because usually the people writing the code aren’t the people who ultimately use the code.
I can say it again and again and again and I just know I haven’t gotten through to you.
I understand all of it. I just point out your dilemma. Your whining will get you nowhere.
You’re a user not willing to read manuals completely but expect stuff to work at your fingertips. You’ll get older and as stuff keeps changing, you’ll find it harder and harder to catch on. You’ll spend a shitload of money to people promising the ease of good old patterns you are used to but you just can’t keep up with folks using more efficient techniques.
And well, FOSS just doesn’t seem to be your thing. Obviously, you need to unload your frustration on some service hotline worker… or random people online.
Why should open source software demand that a user “read manuals completely” and yet other software doesn’t require that? Are the people who program open source software that talentless that they don’t even know how a user of their own software uses it? That’s a FAILURE of the developer. Time is money, and if it takes for me to purchase a piece of commercial software to get the kind of talent to write software which makes me a more efficient worker, then hell yeah most people will be willing to do just that. But then let’s please stop pretending that Linux and most open software is a viable alternative. It’s not. It’s mostly just a “tech demo”. The arrogance of the Linux community is pretty hilarious.
Apparently it depends on who you ask in here… some think that people should just use it and be grateful for having it because it’s free! Others claim that it was never aimed at being a useful tool - mission accomplished, I guess! Congrats? Others think it’s a perfectly fine piece of software because they’ve never edited photos for a living or done any graphic design work but it checks off feature boxes, so it must be good.
This is all so indicative of the whole open source software community. Arrogant developers who think that just because they wrote a piece of code, the public should lavish them with praise regardless of how useless that software should be. I did a thing, so honor me!1!!
I tried to use GIMP when my PS sub ran out and I NEEDED to get some pics edited. Good GOD it took me way too long to get used to the workspace. Workflow was cut ion half, I guess that’s a thing with any new program but it took me like maybe a minute to figure out Darktable when I switched from LR.
I totally hear you. This is what far too many of these open source projects don’t get. Software needs to be usable. Fast code means squat if you are a user and you are pulling your hair out because the software forces you to work a way that is not intuitive.
The developers of free software will never beg you to use their software, that’s what companies with commercial software do.
They surely try to appeal to a certain userbase so they also ask for feedback, bug reports, testing and also contributions, translations because they aren’t working for you, they are working with you. Your phrases sound kind of entitled, like there’s someone that ows you better software, but there’s no one to complain to except to those who tell you that GIMP/any software is totally fine for everyone without knowing your specific use case. Developers of free software are anyone with any skillset who will try their best, but it doesn’t mean they’re masters, people who code to flex will probably be found at code golfing competitions instead
Stop claiming that you have some piece of software that is “just as good as” Photoshop then. Stop acting like you have any software, quite frankly because GIMP, like sooo many other open source programs, are just “tech demos”. Some programmer wanted to flex his coding skills and out popped a piece of software that might be 11.5% faster than a commercial program, but is too clunky to use. This whole argument shows why Linux will always lose in the OS world because far too many of those who use it, and even more who develop for it just don’t get that at the end of the day people use computers to get work done, not to fiddle with this or fiddle with that. We aren’t here to praise the coding gods because you could accomplish some task. We need to edit a photo or color correct a video. We want to model something to 3D print or engineer a part that will be machined. Actual tasks that regular users do.
A clunky UI - which is far, far too common on open source applications
So, what are you going to do about it ? Contribute ? Learn the ins and outs of gimp, and propose some UI changes ? And if you don’t have time to do that, who does / who cares enough for that ?
People who code stuff like GIMP generally don’t really care for UI, or have the time. They’re volunteers, passionate people. Not designers.
That’s also a broad generlization. Firefox has bad UI/UX ? (Sometimes yeah on some niche things but I wholeheartedly believe google is at fault somehow)
What about Krita ? Blender has been doing UI work last I heard of it, so that’s also that. Paint.net was also open source. Chromium has bad UI ? Android ? Vs Code ? GNOME ? KDE ? Element ? Jitsi ? Signal ? Wordpress ?
Yeah, gimp sucks. And the type of people who are “linux elitists”, that tell you you suck for not enjoying bad UI, also suck. But why not make a meaningful change to the world ? Try to hope for a world where GIMP is actually usable ?
If all you want to do it text your programming muscles, then do so. But don’t claim you’ve developing a useable piece of software. I mentioned this to someone already… A far better alternative is Photopea. It’s browser based and is partially open source. While GIMP has almost 100 people tied to the project, Photopea was written by ONE guy. And it’s great. Again, within the limitations of what browser-based software can offer. But it mirrors Photoshop as closely as possible and is a joy to use as long as the project doesn’t get too heavy (because again, it runs in your browser). So since clearly GIMP wasn’t written by people who give a shit about the end product as a real usable tool, then maybe the Linux community should stop proclaiming that it’s a real usable tool whenever someone asks “ok, but what kind of software can I use on it?”.
Wait, so are people going to claim that the start-up speed is the problem with GIMP on Windows and not the god awful UI? This is the problem with the Linux crowd. You guys write software to write software and not because you are a user of that software. A clunky UI - which is far, far too common on open source applications - will cost someone a heck of a lot more than a few seconds in getting work done.
It’s a problem you have since your OS pretends that Software (or a Computer in general) isn’t complex.
Linux crowds use *NIX principles that are >50 years old and didn’t change a lot, because they work. Not because some software devs circlejerk or want to annoy you.
This is the most Linux-ist answer ever.
I’m talking from a users perspective. I don’t give a flying fuck about whatever development technologies you are taking about because ultimately I don’t care. The vast majority of people don’t know - or care - how their car works. They just know it has to start. That’s how you folks lose the battle. You wrote code because you want to practice your skills or learn some new techniques or just because your bored. That’s great. That’s fine. But you’re not asking people that USE that software HOW it’s used. Next to zero effort is put into workflow. Your code might be fast. It might be bug free. Congrats, but if it takes 10 clicks to accomplish something that other software can do in 2, then that’s a problem. If the workflow is totally disjointed and not how a graphic designer actually works, then what good is that 2.735% more efficient code going to do for them?
The fact that my post was about UI and workflow and youre talking about Unix principlea speaks volumes to why open source software tends to be so bad from a users perspective.
no, you’re talking from a patreon perspective. You have no clue of the subject and you simply demand people serving stuff the way you think is best. Also you don’t care why things are the way they are.
Basically a Karen User.
Exactly. The vast majority buys a $50.000 car and only use 2% of it’s features. And if the manufacturer starts to charge for a feature you like or decides to spy on you, there’s nothing you can do about it.
What part of this don’t you understand?
I KNOW I’m not talking like a developer. I’m not one. I’m a fucken user. That’s the point. The point that so many piece of open source software completely miss.
And you just did it again.
I don’t care if there is a little gerbil in a wheel spinning inside my machine. I don’t care if it is a nuclear reactor making it go. To the user, that’s is immaterial and you are missing that point.
As a user I don’t care HOW a piece of software is made. I care that it works and I can get my work done. There is a workflow to most jobs. You do this before you do that. You click on this tool 10x as often as this other one. Few open source programs bother to understand that all important work flow because usually the people writing the code aren’t the people who ultimately use the code.
I can say it again and again and again and I just know I haven’t gotten through to you.
I understand all of it. I just point out your dilemma. Your whining will get you nowhere.
You’re a user not willing to read manuals completely but expect stuff to work at your fingertips. You’ll get older and as stuff keeps changing, you’ll find it harder and harder to catch on. You’ll spend a shitload of money to people promising the ease of good old patterns you are used to but you just can’t keep up with folks using more efficient techniques.
And well, FOSS just doesn’t seem to be your thing. Obviously, you need to unload your frustration on some service hotline worker… or random people online.
Why should open source software demand that a user “read manuals completely” and yet other software doesn’t require that? Are the people who program open source software that talentless that they don’t even know how a user of their own software uses it? That’s a FAILURE of the developer. Time is money, and if it takes for me to purchase a piece of commercial software to get the kind of talent to write software which makes me a more efficient worker, then hell yeah most people will be willing to do just that. But then let’s please stop pretending that Linux and most open software is a viable alternative. It’s not. It’s mostly just a “tech demo”. The arrogance of the Linux community is pretty hilarious.
There’s alot of irritation and bad general assumptions here lol. Krita, vlc, firefox, kdenlive etc exist and are amazing.
Gimp’s ui is pretty bad though imo, even if it’s good enough. I’d pirate and use photoshop as it is now if I could.
wait people are supposed to use GIMP I think it was for that special level of hell for graphic designers
Apparently it depends on who you ask in here… some think that people should just use it and be grateful for having it because it’s free! Others claim that it was never aimed at being a useful tool - mission accomplished, I guess! Congrats? Others think it’s a perfectly fine piece of software because they’ve never edited photos for a living or done any graphic design work but it checks off feature boxes, so it must be good.
This is all so indicative of the whole open source software community. Arrogant developers who think that just because they wrote a piece of code, the public should lavish them with praise regardless of how useless that software should be. I did a thing, so honor me!1!!
I tried to use GIMP when my PS sub ran out and I NEEDED to get some pics edited. Good GOD it took me way too long to get used to the workspace. Workflow was cut ion half, I guess that’s a thing with any new program but it took me like maybe a minute to figure out Darktable when I switched from LR.
I totally hear you. This is what far too many of these open source projects don’t get. Software needs to be usable. Fast code means squat if you are a user and you are pulling your hair out because the software forces you to work a way that is not intuitive.
The developers of free software will never beg you to use their software, that’s what companies with commercial software do.
They surely try to appeal to a certain userbase so they also ask for feedback, bug reports, testing and also contributions, translations because they aren’t working for you, they are working with you. Your phrases sound kind of entitled, like there’s someone that ows you better software, but there’s no one to complain to except to those who tell you that GIMP/any software is totally fine for everyone without knowing your specific use case. Developers of free software are anyone with any skillset who will try their best, but it doesn’t mean they’re masters, people who code to flex will probably be found at code golfing competitions instead
Stop claiming that you have some piece of software that is “just as good as” Photoshop then. Stop acting like you have any software, quite frankly because GIMP, like sooo many other open source programs, are just “tech demos”. Some programmer wanted to flex his coding skills and out popped a piece of software that might be 11.5% faster than a commercial program, but is too clunky to use. This whole argument shows why Linux will always lose in the OS world because far too many of those who use it, and even more who develop for it just don’t get that at the end of the day people use computers to get work done, not to fiddle with this or fiddle with that. We aren’t here to praise the coding gods because you could accomplish some task. We need to edit a photo or color correct a video. We want to model something to 3D print or engineer a part that will be machined. Actual tasks that regular users do.
So, what are you going to do about it ? Contribute ? Learn the ins and outs of gimp, and propose some UI changes ? And if you don’t have time to do that, who does / who cares enough for that ? People who code stuff like GIMP generally don’t really care for UI, or have the time. They’re volunteers, passionate people. Not designers.
That’s also a broad generlization. Firefox has bad UI/UX ? (Sometimes yeah on some niche things but I wholeheartedly believe google is at fault somehow) What about Krita ? Blender has been doing UI work last I heard of it, so that’s also that. Paint.net was also open source. Chromium has bad UI ? Android ? Vs Code ? GNOME ? KDE ? Element ? Jitsi ? Signal ? Wordpress ?
Yeah, gimp sucks. And the type of people who are “linux elitists”, that tell you you suck for not enjoying bad UI, also suck. But why not make a meaningful change to the world ? Try to hope for a world where GIMP is actually usable ?
If all you want to do it text your programming muscles, then do so. But don’t claim you’ve developing a useable piece of software. I mentioned this to someone already… A far better alternative is Photopea. It’s browser based and is partially open source. While GIMP has almost 100 people tied to the project, Photopea was written by ONE guy. And it’s great. Again, within the limitations of what browser-based software can offer. But it mirrors Photoshop as closely as possible and is a joy to use as long as the project doesn’t get too heavy (because again, it runs in your browser). So since clearly GIMP wasn’t written by people who give a shit about the end product as a real usable tool, then maybe the Linux community should stop proclaiming that it’s a real usable tool whenever someone asks “ok, but what kind of software can I use on it?”.