While hyprland is really nice, it is made by a transphobe and a large part of the community is also. Switch to something else there are a lot of good alternatives. Kind of a protest against him.
Using hyprland in no way benefits the developer to be clear, I would just not donate, beyond that it really doesn’t matter
I disagree. Open source thrives on attention. Install count is like their cocaine.
Install count isn’t necessarily reported, and all forms of reporting that I know of on linux are opt-in
Popularity give them followers, followers give them money
Popularity has nothing to do with install count, and nearly every distro does opt-in to show what you’re running.
Pretty sure the lead lemmy dev has said some transphobic things as well. They’re a major tankie at least.
Thanks for the heads up, but I’m browsing lemmy on a device that is produced at least in part by slave labor somewhere along the logistics chain. At some point I think you just have to disengage from developer drama.
Is there like a word that stands for, “I can’t be perfect so I gave up trying to be better”?
deleted by creator
I misread this as “made me a transphobe”
im waiting on my distro probably or i could be doing just fine on experimental Wayland
What’s experimental Wayland?
Probably some desktop that only now started to adopt Wayland in an experimental state because the maintainers thought that playing “wait and see” for way too many years was a great idea.
I just wish the lead person wasn’t you know… Only reason I’m on KDE.
Why not Sway?
just don’t vibe with it tbh. Can’t explain in an objective way why though.
I absolutely love sway. It’s everything I need, and nothing I don’t. Just works for me
I’m on sway for the same reason.
What do you folks on hyprland/sway use for your shell / toolbars / launcher? I tried nwg and it was… OK but pretty clunky. No shade for the developers of the project, all the settings pages and system config stuff is a TON to put together…
I don’t need something as full-featured as KDE or Gnome Settings. I’d prefer a well-polished minimalist launcher and task manager / toolbar over something that does everything
(I came from i3)
Still use rofi, because too lazy to configure something else. (My scripts are heavily based on adi1090x/rofi).
I took my polybar config and made waybar look pretty much the same.
Not sure what you mean by “shell” exactly.
Just grab some prebuilt .config files. I just switched from maintaining my own “custom” set to the endeavorOS community repo for sway, and it’s seriously amazing. Not too much, but has everything I need working right out the box.
I’m using fuzzel as my launcher. No complaints so far
I just didn’t jive with sway for some reason. Also not letting me tell it that I understand it doesn’t support Nvidia just once got annoying really quickly lmao.
I’m ootl, whats wrong with the lead person?
cryptofash that hides behind free speech and allows nazis and that to post in the discord and banned a trans person that called out the messages by those users for “inciting arguments” and repeatedly misgendered them then went on about how they’re not bigoted they just believe in free speech and blamed the user and pretending they were the victim and then when people said they should have a code of conduct he said doing that was just a hassle and how it would make it impossible to do lead dev stuff for him to enforce the rules while saying they have rules against that sort of thing anyway so blatant doublespeak where he’s saying he’s moderating and everyone’s lying but also if he had to moderate he’d be too busy to develop
All sounds awful but I’m mostly confused as to why a software project needs a discord
I fucking hate Discord with a passion because of all the information basically being held behind a proprietary piece of software, so I downloaded Legcord to at least be able to join those communities without sacrificing my own privacy.
Highly recommend it! I have a Fallout terminal theme, and actually enjoy using it for once knowing that the actual app is not installed on my computer. :)
Collaboration among their own developers, maybe. And support for users. Both of those could be done other ways, but Discord has a lot of pull as a free place to build and manage a community.
because as much as old people hate to acknowledge it mailing lists and github (and alternatives) suck they’re terrible for actual conversations to try and coax more info out of the user when they ask for support people aren’t logged into those 24/7 a lot of people are with discord and everyone’s familiar with it and already has an account and knows the UI how many people actually have a github account and know how to use it and will actually ever log back in to give more information if asked vs putting a discord button somewhere someone pops in reports the issue then if there’s not enough info you can @ them and they’ll come back as soon as they see it
Horrible place to support software. No history, your question is answered by whoever happens to be there, you cant see the information with out joining… just terrible.
With other methods at least there is asynchronous support, history is kept, and no login is needed.
Not to mention the horrible interface and design choices and the reliance on third party tools that could disappear or change service at anytime.
anyone that says there’s no history just refuses to learn to use discord discord has a very powerful and easy to use search feature I can find exact conversations from years ago in literally seconds the interface thing is subjective but whether it’s bad or not people know how to use it atleast and the third party could disappear whenever applies to github most forums too this is what I mean by refuse to acknowledge I’ve had fat better experiences with support on discord than any alternative
anyone that says there’s no history just refuses to learn to use discord discord has a very powerful and easy to use search feature
Kindly point me to the URL for a saved search.
The search is horrible!!! The order of words affects the results! It has no way of searching for what you actually typed instead of what it thinks is a better search query.
I am not the only one who finds the searches inconsistent. It also depends on how each person sets up their channel. More importantly it doesn’t end up in a search engine. You have to know what discord server to start with.
IRC with history, your own forums, your own chat, your own wiki: they do not disappear.
Adamant transphobe, but in that insidious way where they justify letting people get bullied in the Discord because their “not on anyone’s side and value different opinions”. A trans person in the Discord server was targeted by another member and intentionally misgendered repeatedly. They spent multiple blogs basically saying “people are snowflakes, we dont want an echo chamber”. Like wtf. (IIRC, working off my memory since I read about it like 2 months ago)
I was building a kiosk for my home assistant with my Raspberry Pi. It was very complicated to set up a cage compositor, set up XWayland, setup Chromium Wayland flags, libinput rules, and the touchscreen mapping still doesn’t work… am I missing something here? For X11 everything just works right out of the box…
… am I missing something here?
X11.
Unless you have a real reason not to use X11, why not just use X11?
Sounds like you’re missing a DE
I want a lightweight kiosk without any DE, and I think a cage would work just fine. Maybe I should use Sway to open a single maximum window instead? It seems more bloated than using
xinitwith a Chromium window, which defeats the entire purpose…
Wayland is pretty darn great nowadays, hell I’m running KDE and got HDR on my desktop; haven’t had any odd goings on since 2023 (though nvidia is still meh)
Same. Intel ran it great, but Nvidia is still pretty bad about running Wayland.
When the Steam Deck dropped I got an AMD GPU and it’s close.to Intel levels of seamless. That’s when I knew that Wayland is more than ready, Nvidia just still is not.
Works great… until you realize your GPU isn’t liked by Wayland when you have more than one monitor lol. Then Wayland is uninstalled and you go back to Xorg or XFCE.
It’s weird, had this issue with multiple monitors where wayland is either a glitchy refresh rate mess or just doesn’t recognize at all. Nvidia, amd, discrete or dedicated, native driver or oem driver: they’re all finicky under wayland when multiple monitors are used.
Electron apps are still broken if you’re on Hyprland and NVIDIA. They just randomly stop working, and when I last checked, nobody had yet figured out why.
It’s why I’m on KDE, because that’s been perfectly stable for me. Plus, KDE is great anyway.
When isn’t nvidia meh?
It’s funny. I used gnome for a long time, and after I fully switched to Debian, I didn’t have any problems with my nvidia card with gnome + wayland. But I switched to plasma recently, and it’s janky. I figured out my vsync issues, but it still runs a post when I wake it from sleep, which just defeats the purpose of sleep mode. I might as well shut it down every time I’m done using it like it’s 1997.
But I started using X + KDE, and most of my problems went away. Still takes forever to wake from sleep. But that’s it, really.
Years ago Nvidia employed a developer who fixed incompatibilities with their proprietary driver. He looked at what caused the issue and even had the driver fixed when Plasma exposed a driver bug.
Then Nvidia decided not to continue this and most KDE development now happens on hardware supported by FOSS drivers. Valve investing in KDE because of Steam Deck and its FOSS Radeon drivers underlined this trend.
Hello, I shut down PC every time I’m done using it like it’s 1997
Yeah, in this day and age, why even keep the computer running if there aren’t any important tasks running? I’ve always shut my computers down at the end of the day, but mainly because I’m poor and watch my bills very closely… :P
I keep mine running 24/7 because it puts less thermal wear on the hardware. But I pay a flat rate for my electricity included in my rent, so it doesn’t cost any extra.
May I ask how does turning it off cause more wear and tear? From my understanding, running it constantly wears it out, but I’ve never heard that turning it off causes it to thermal wear?
Thermal expansion and contraction is what can lead to the die cracking. Not really a problem on anything other than laptops with shitty coolers which can reach 110C.
LMDE Cinnamon user here. There’s a setting in the power options that tells the computer to switch to hibernate if it remains in suspend for a certain amount of time. Hibernated computers suspend to disk rather than RAM and are basically switched off, so need to POST to come back online.
It took me a while to find that setting, and it might be the same case with whatever you’re using.
What’s more, it only took effect if I used the GUI to put the computer into suspend mode. I usually use a keyboard combo to suspend the computer at night, but occasionally I’d use the GUI and come back in the morning to a hibernated computer.
Thought I’d been taking crazy pills or that there was something wrong.
My main gripes are that inconsistency between suspend methods and also that there’s no setting for how long to stay in suspend before hibernating. I have no idea if that’s a UEFI thing or something that could be set elsewhere, but I’d probably use that feature if I could set it.
As it is I’m giving the hybrid option a try. Basically it suspends like normal, but also sets up a hibernated restart for if the power goes out. That hasn’t happened yet, so can only assume it’ll work when the time comes.
Late edit: The delay between suspend and hibernate is set in
/etc/systemd/sleep.confwith the settingHibernateDelaySec=. Manual page reading is required, but even so, this feature is not well documented there or out on the Internet.There may be syntax available to specify other units of time with a suffix. For example, my computer’s related
SuspendEstimationSec=option is given as60minin the example and not3600.Pull the plug on your computer sometime to try it out?
Yeah, I really should. I’ll have a piece of hardware to install soon, so I might test it before I do that. Gotta switch off anyway so might as well.
I still haven’t been able to get wake from sleep working in distros with Wayland on my PC with an NVIDIA GPU. Tried in EndeavourOS and Garuda. It crashes trying to wake from sleep every time. I’ve tried everything in the arch wiki and search engine results like modifying config files and whatnot, no dice.
It really is pretty great nowadays. I always had both my laptops with fractional scaling and currently it all seems to work very well, no more weird renderings anywhere. And a greater thing, I had a external screen I left unused for multiple years because it needed to be used with a different fractional scaling than the laptop it was connected and now it just works and I can finally use it. It’s nice. I don’t have hdr needs but color management seems to be properly in place now and the bugs I had previously with it are also gone - like it did something weird on some video recording app and some weird stuff with that thing that changes the color of the screen when it’s night - it all just works now.
Is it a wayland exclusive? I couldn’t find it in the x11 kde.
HDR is pretty much impossible in X11; especially since there are 0 plans for it, and no plans to do anything than bare minimum updates
To add to what you said, X11 is unmaintained software.
Xorg will be maintained because of XWayland for quite some time but it’s use cases outside this scope that are increasingly ignored.
HDR? Pretty much yeah.
HDR? Pretty sure it’s wayland only
They are called compositors, but they are not as good as X WMs IMO. I’m keeping an eye on them tho.
It still bothers me how toxic the hyprland devs behaved last year. Keeping an eye on that too 😉
compositors, but they are not as good as X WMs
Interesting. I’m curious about what seems to be missing in your use case?
Not OP, but modularity. An X11 WM is just a WM. You can choose compositor, bar, shortcut daemon, etc. With Wayland, a single implementation holds most of that, and more. If you need a specific feature from your display server, you are stuck on WMs that support it. This has forced me to use KDE for Wayland on my main workstation, and although it works well, it’s not my prefered WM/workflow.
Alongside that, no clones of several X11 WMs exist. bspwm for example. Riverwm exists, but has major limitations, and the workflow isn’t the same.
In practice wayland is way more composable that one would, at first glance, expect, and even accidentally so, because DEs are made up of different components often sharing common interfaces, so the cosmic task bar will run under the sway compositor and suchlike. Not just “run” as in “not crash” but “actually display tasks based on information from the compositor”. I expect further standardisation there once the ecosystem matures a bit more. Just because you can include a task bar directly in the compositor process doesn’t mean you have to, and the same goes for window rules, window decorators, whatnot.
The status bar example holds for xorg as well… What wm doesn’t ship its own bar nowadays? The only one I can think of is bspwm. But nothing stops you from disabling the native bar and using your own
xmonad doesn’t, though using xmobar is common.
Trying to replace KDE’s task bar is quite more involved than exchanging all those minimalist bars for tiling wms, it’s way more tightly integrated. It is a separate process even on wayland, though, so the API to e.g. get live video previews of windows is exposed, in principle anyone can use it as long as KDE spawns you as a task bar and thus grants you access to the API. Which is probably just a matter of changing an obscure config file somewhere, they never hardcode such things.
And if you’re comfortable with them changing the API under your feet because they probably didn’t submit it on the standards track because, as said, the whole ecosystem isn’t exactly mature, DEs themselves are still figuring out how to best do things and to establish a standard they actually have to agree on a common approach. There’s no taskbar stardard for X btw, either, or at least xmobar is being fed a proprietary format string via fifo every update. It’s basically just a fancy text box.
With a library like Wlroots you almost get that, it’s just in-process rather than out of process. The real problem there is doing some fancier things requires nonstandard Wayland extensions with low support across the ecosystem.
Depends things like shaped window borders for theming, title bars in hyprland, effects, pagers, some automation options, etc…
What I generally miss in Wayland is better mouse automation support, Java support, the ability to have multiple mouse cursors and assign them to different input devices.
Wayland
Java support
…what?
Java GUI applicatiins have to use the X compatibility layer of Wayland at the moment, because Wayland support hasn’t been integrated into JREs yet
So what you’re saying is, it’s not so much that Java support is missing from Wayland (which wouldn’t make sense to begin with), it’s that Wayland support is missing from Java.
This is technically correct, and you’re right about where the blame lies, but I suspect for most people holding off on switching, the difference is academic.
To clarify: This causes problems like ugly font rendering and some games not working, etc.
Java’s UI libraries are notorious for shoddy window handling, it also was a nightmare on X.
export _JAVA_AWT_WM_NONREPARENTING=1is one of those magical make-everything-better incantations that really makes you wonder why the fuck it isn’t the default behaviorOh i see. I thought there was more to it – but I guess it’s just Java being horrible as usual.
Depends things like shaped window borders for theming, title bars
All possible. X had some age-old protocol enabling oval and whatnot windows and noone ever used it, whether you use CSD or SSD you can paint with alpha and say “nope, that mouse click wasn’t for me”. So even if logically all windows are rectangular because that makes sense because textures are rectangular and you really don’t want to complicate things at that level, UX-wise you can have fractal borders if you really want.
in hyprland,
…anything “in hyperland” is a hyperland problem, not a wayland problem.
effects, pagers, some automation options, etc…
All Things compositors can do.
What I generally miss in Wayland is better mouse automation support,
Faking input devices is compositor responsibility, for obvious security reasons.
Java support,
As if Java and X work well together.
the ability to have multiple mouse cursors and assign them to different input devices.
Weston does this, protocols support it, I don’t think it’s much of a priority for other compositors. The most common multiple pointing device configuration is to have both devices control one pointer. My tablet works and the tip is properly analogue that’s plenty of functionality for me (dunno if tilt works by now, blender doesn’t use it anyways).
So this is my big issue with Wayland - nothing is a ”Wayland problem”. Everything lands on the compositors. Features that existed for the past few decades in X and are deeply integrated into the ecosystem were relegated to second class citizens or just ignored. (Can we share our screens with Zoom yet?)
I won’t argue that X is flawless or should live forever. X should die. However, X actually solved problems instead of just providing a bunch of (IMHO) half baked ”protocols” so that someone else can solve the problem. From the perspective of a user or application developer, that’s just hot potatoes being passed around. And there have been plenty of hot potatoes the past decade.
Thank you for reading my yearly Wayland rant. I’ll now disappear into my XMonad-fueled bliss, fully software rendered.
Everything lands on the compositors. Features that existed for the past few decades in X and are deeply integrated into the ecosystem were relegated to second class citizens or just ignored
There were ten years that the desktop environment people wasted, where all those interfaces could have been created but they only started in earnest once the x.org devs put their foot down and said “nope we’re serious x.org is unmaintainable we’re not doing this any more”.
And no, X didn’t solve any of those problems – what it did was provide completely unrestricted access to everything to anyone and it took multiple decades before different clients would stop fighting each other over control over the desktop. That clusterfuck was one of the things that x.org devs wanted to avoid, but they, not being DE devs, also didn’t know what DE people actually needed. So they asked. And, as said, didn’t get an answer.
You misunderstood totally. I’m not saying it’s not possible. There isn’t a compositor making use of those things, but many X WMs that do.
There’s no X WMs that fake input devices, or organise global hotkeys, or a thousand other things people always quote when bashing wayland. You can get bog-standard X applications which do that because X has literally no security model, but the feature set between e.g. KDE on X and KDE on wayland is virtually identical.
It’s like you want to misunderstand me. I’m not bashing Wayland. That part of my comment isn’t about WMs and compositors. It’s about how hard it is to make macro that does a few clicks and types a few keys into an app etc… It’s still very hard in Wayland. I’m sure it will get better some day, but we’re not there yet.
Have a look here. Not sure how they do it the proper way would be to run the desktop environment as a subcompositor of autokey.
Meanwhile, though, do try CLI automation. It’s the Unix way.
Ok, but I need manual control over how the tiles get arranged and shaped.
And I need to be able to stack windows.
Hyprland is pretty and declarative and has so many cool extensions that work really well and help to tie the experience together, but sway is more functional.
If hyprland offered the same ability to manually control the tile tree that sway offers, I’d use it.
For now I’m shoehorning the hyprland extensions like hyprwall and hyprlock onto sway.
Bloat-ware
If you want a lightweight compositor, then boy do i have just the right thing for you
It’s 3x smaller than dwl! Perfect! (and can only run one program by the tty… but no bloat!!!)
Hyprland bloated? Huh?
Coming from i3, all these fancy animations are technically not needed.
Compared to like iceWM maybe???
Wayland has at least one deal breaker for me. It doesn’t remember where my windows were at logout when saving the session. I have six virtual desktops and have specific windows in certain desktops. Putting everything back where they belong after each login, no thank you. Until they add that I’ll stick to X11.
You actually think the X11 protocol remembers any window positions?
Neither Wayland nor X11 do. It has always been the window manager that does it and whether or not some specific window manager does this using either protocol is an implementation detail of the WM.
That’s not a Wayland issue, that’s a compositor issue. Sway for example allows mapping apps to workspaces.
For that matter, Xorg didn’t handle this either, DEs or WMs did.
KDE + wayland on Tumbleweed gave me this experience.
Thts also what i do on hyprland too
I ended up switching to Wayland 3 or 4 years ago precisely because X11 was so shit about remembering my monitor positions. I had to run an xrandr script every time it booted or otherwise decided to shit itself. Using 2 GPUs didn’t seem like it was thought about in the X11 design.
Dual GPUs are no issue for x.org it’s just that automatic configuration assumes a somewhat standard machine or it gets confused. Should I tell you about the days before automatic configuration, of hand-editing XF86Config to tell the X server that no, I didn’t have a serial or ps/2 mouse but an USB one, and it had three buttons and a mouse wheel? Of seeing a list of monitor timings with the comment “CHOOSING THE WRONG THING MIGHT DESTROY YOUR HARDWARE”?
xrandr is actually quite recent (or I may be ancient), being able to do all that stuff at runtime was a godsend.
Oh, I fought with X11 many times over the past three decades (almost) that I’ve used Linux. But as soon as I could push that mess behind me because Wayland did as good or better, I jumped on that horse, let me tell you.
You can configure this with window rules and autostart apps when Hyprland starts. That’s not remembering what you had open the last time, but it will probably give you the experience you’re looking for.
Not the same thing. With session saving I don’t have configure anything.
It’s incredible that wayland is so incapable that it can’t even keep this kind of state, and we’re back to having to basically having to write .xinit scripts. Because that’s what little so far wayland offers: less than xinit.
That’s a really weird and dishonest take. If a compositor wants to implement that feature it absolutely can, Wayland or not has nothing to do with it. I’m just saying it isn’t implemented the way you want in the compositors I know of. Seems like all it needs is compositor developers who want what you want.
Not a deal breaker for me, but I’d love this feature.
Fully customised Hyprland use half as much ram as Plasma, but I still prefer Plasma because I can’t get used to WM
How much RAM does it use and how does this compare to running a web browser with a few open tabs?
Seriously, unless some memory leak makes a DE consume 10 gigs of RAM, nobody will notice because DE’s RAM use is dwarfed by what end user applications use. 10 years ago I got a notebook for 600 Euro with a 16 GB RAM upgrade for an additional 100 Euro.
Performance differences are either rendering speed or perceived performance because of animation speed. With the exception of embedded hardware, RAM use for desktops is irrelevant since quite some time (and on such constrained hardware you can’t properly browse the web anyway).
Love it, all it’s missing is a built-in monocle layout 🙏🙏
Bloated?
Wayland? Does it have colors, window position memory or hotkeys yet? Or are they still in the “we only sell an idea, you do all the work” vaporware phase?
Was the last time you read or heard anything about Wayland 15 years ago?
Wayland seems to have problems showing colors properly. I was trying to fix this issue myself a couple weeks ago.
Colors in Xorg and Windows(gross) show properly, Wayland always looks dull and muted in comparison. Switching color profiles didn’t change anything.
But hey, maybe there’s a fix I haven’t tried yet that works… I sure would hate to be proven wrong! No seriously, if someone has a fix for the dull colors I would likely start using Wayland again.
Nov 2024 actually.
not sure what you’re talking about, but I’ve got colors on my PC xd
Is Hercules even supported any more?
My high resolution EGA display has all kinds of colors. Up to 16 at once, even.
People down vote but push-to-talk doesn’t work on pure Wayland
org.freedesktop.portal.GlobalShortcuts allows apps to request a global shortcut binding from the compositor. They can’t just log all your keystrokes globally because that’d be a keylogger. Also there’d be no way to resolve conflicts between shortcuts.
If your app doesn’t support that then blame the app, the interface has been out for a while, and compositors have supported it for a while.
kinda sad that users can’t (afaik) enable global keyligging for all applications. I totally understand why it’s a bad idea, but it’s just so much simpler to work with.
It’s not any simpler than having a popup appear when an app asks for a global shortcut, and way way less secure
Security aside if there’s no central management you can have multiple apps listening for the same keybinding, I wouldn’t call that “simpler to work with”. It may be easy in the short term, but the dark side of the force always is.
Wayland has a notable piece of “but Elon can do no wrong!” cult thing going for it.
You’re aware you just called the x.org developers Elon, do you?
x.org is just as much a freedesktop project as wayland is or dbus. Or, before they spun off, flatpak. Wayland grew out of the x.org devs deciding that the thing has become literally unmaintainable. The recent pain is caused by downstream devs (including kde, gnome etc) noticing quite late that the x.org people were actually being serious, if they had provided input earlier then the gazillion of protocol extensions that people are whining about now (such as global hotkeys) could’ve been finalised literally ten years ago.
x.org still gets a couple of patches – for xwayland. At some point they’re going to rip out the whole graphics driver stack and replace it with a wayland compositor, that compositor plus xwayland will be the X server. You’re free to build a PC with a good ole S3 Trio but don’t expect future x.org releases to support it.
What is missing that makes it a deal breaker? It really seems odd to always see comments effectively saying “we should have stayed with X.Org”. The nice thing about Wayland is that it’s maintained, so new features are being added over time.
My Wayland is now in Technicolor, but it cost me a few shillings.
